MA reform took a while to work out the kinks, but with a cooperative legislature it got done and now they have 98% coverage. But people like Invictus are rooting for failure and want the uninsured to stay uninsured. Republicans would rather sabotage than fix any problems.

Also, if the law is so spectacularly bad, why'd you have to go to Neo-Con central to get an article confirming your hate-boner for Obamacare?

I used the Weekly Standard because I happened to be reading it just then. Also because it has information on how delaying the individual mandate is becoming a real possibility, and how doing so is a body blow for the law as a whole. Do you really want other links to how much of a disaster this policy is? Isn't that, uh, obvious to everyone?

The "death spiral" of prices may already be happening. Millions are losing insurance. God knows what will happen a year from now if this law's still in place and the employer mandate kicks in.

The underlying idea of the policy was always flawed, and now we're reaping what was obvious all along. This was a huge, terribly drafted, economically transformative law pushed through on (and opposed for) almost entirely ideological reasons. Unless EVERYTHING breaks in Obamacare's favor the thing cannot endure.

You mean the private insurance plans that don't provide preventative care or other essential benefits? These are illegal plans that can no longer be grandfathered into the market so they aren't renewing the plans.

Pushed on for ideological reasons? This was a Republican plan. No amount of your spin doctoring can change that basic fact. This was the least intrusive away to arrive at the goal of few to no uninsured people. Republicans don't want to achieve that goal. Fine. Just admit that and stop saying how the policy was flawed. This was *opposed* for ideological reasons now, because Republicans want Obama to fail, period. End of story.

""Isn't that, uh, obvious to everyone?"
"

Obvious, smobvious. The law hasn't had time yet. But you're already celebrating, as you always do. Root for failure, that's all you got. No new ideas. Just blind ideological hatred.

Keep carrying that water for him on this, Putin33. Fewer and fewer are. This is as bad a policy disaster as any that have happened before.

And people aren't going to lose insurance. They're going to be insured. The cancelled policy providers are required to tell their cancelees about these options. What is being done is shitty cheapskate plans can no longer being offered. This, the Republicans are presenting as some kind of big travesty.

Unlike you, I don't give a shit what the media hysteria of the day is saying or what is popular at the moment. You people also said the IRS scandal was worse than Watergate. You're habitual drama queens. You're always predicting doom.

I think the republicans are stupid to try to delay and defund Obamacare, force it down the throats of Americans.

When Americans have to spend a year paying the 40% higher premiums as well as all the other bullsht that probably wont have fixed itself by then, the democrats wont have a chance in hell of winning in 2014.

Its possible that the Republicans may get some 58-60 seats in the senate and will be able to force Obama into a corner so he can't do any more damage in his final 2 years in office.

"You people also said the IRS scandal was worse than Watergate."
I don't think we've said that, what we've said is that:
1. Fast and Furious
2. Benghazi
3. IRS
4. NSA
all the scandals this administration has had combined makes it 10 times worse then watergate.

They can only now buy more expensive plans than they had before, with costly baubles like maternity care for men. Ones who need insurance will have to suffer through that, but the young and healthy will just go without. Without young healthy people prices will have to be raised further since insurance companies will only have sick people on their policies. Prices keep climbing, with the government footing the now absurdly high bill, till it reaches a point where things are so awful change has to come. Wasn't the point of all this to keep health care prices down?

It isn't about what popular, it's about what reality is. The reality is is that Obamacare, unless everything from now on works perfectly, will not work. It was a bad plan when Heritage came up with the foundations of it, and it's a bad one now. Put everyone on Medicare or deregulate and let insurance providers cross state lines to drive down costs. This half-measure is doing no one any good, and even Democrats are seeing it now.

b-b-but if you like your insurer-san you c-c-can keep it, b-baka!

"Without young healthy people prices will have to be raised further since insurance companies will only have sick people on their policies."

Wait a minute, so you accept the logic of the mandate but oppose it anyway?

And maternity care is a 'bauble' now?

"They can only now buy more expensive plans than they had before"

The plans they had before could barely be called insurance at all.

There is no evidence that young people are going to go without health insurance. That's just your wishful-thinking-hoping-for-failure talking point.

"t was a bad plan when Heritage came up with the foundations of it, and it's a bad one now"

Which is why it is popular in MA, because it's so bad.

"Put everyone on Medicare or deregulate and let insurance providers cross state lines to drive down costs"

I notice your non-ideas didn't include letting the government bargain on drug prices, which the GOP has blocked over and over again.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57613067/poll-obamacare-support-obama-approval-sink-to-new-lows/

You're more marginal and delusional on this than ever, Putin33. Gotta keep that party line, though.

This really just betrays how you're much more of a hack than a radical. This is the time to push for something radical like putting everyone on Medicare or creating some other single-payer system. Obamacare is floundering and the Republicans do not have a replacement. But instead you cling to the party line like the good little leftbot you are, even though the policy isn't particularly left wing at all. It's just fundamentally flawed and has been embarrassingly mismanaged. That's plain for everyone without a democratic centralist blinders on to see. That's why Democrats, including Bill Clinton himself, are looking for ways to get out of this thing before it unmakes what very well could be another decade of Democrat rule.

You yet again have nothing to go on but bland appeals to popularity and media hysteria. You might be a formidable mind if you ever bothered to make an argument.

You can celebrate before you're in the end-zone again if you want, but you've done this before and it's blown up in your face. Evidently you guys never learn.

Sorry to rain on your doom parade, but people are going to get better insurance plans for cheaper than they could otherwise get them, and coverage is going to be universal, your propaganda and gloating notwithstanding.

I do like how you're proposing putting everyone on Medicare when you've also signed on to Paul Ryan's plan to annihilate Medicare from existence and have over and over tried to use scare tactics about how Medicare is bankrupt. Talk about disingenuous. Talk about hackery.

"I don't think we've said that, what we've said is that:
1. Fast and Furious
2. Benghazi
3. IRS
4. NSA
all the scandals this administration has had combined makes it 10 times worse then watergate."

I'm not one to defend Obama - he sucks mightily - but seriously, the NSA scandal is not on him. That shit's been going on for much longer than this administration.

Sorry, Bo, the NSA scandal *is* on him. it is *also* on the previous adminstration. For him to say, 6 years in to his adminstration (which was going to be the most open and transparent adminstration ever....Haaaa ha ha ha ha)....uh, if it was so terrible, this NSA thing, he could have, should have, fixed it. So he owns the NSA scandal.

Obama *willfullly* continued and in fact enhanced the Patriot Act...it was re-authorized with changes under his leadership...so stop defending and carrying water for Obama.

Oh...and that endess war crap he was going to end...yeah, that too...
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/19/21534305-endless-afghanistan-us-afghan-agreement-would-keep-troops-in-place-and-funds-flowing-perhaps-indefinitely?lite

Hell Bo...at this pace, they might still have a chance to re-instate the draft and send YOUR young ass to fight in those beautiful mountains...

Lol, like I'm signing Selective Services. You think I haven't thought that over? Let them come find me. Don't bother lecturing me about the government benefits I don't get; I don't give a fuck, I wouldn't take them even if I needed them.

As long as you're putting it on both Bush and Obama I won't complain. They are both in the running for worst ever. Like Carter and Ford all over again.

Bo - you'll be forced to take them. The Government loves you...

Then I'll go to Yemen.

Going to Yemen to avoid registering for the Selective Service is just about the opposite of an effective strategy.

You're really struggling with the idea of sarcasm tonight.

Bo, you can live behind the false wall in my basement if you like.

Or Putin has a tiny bed in a closet...but you had best bring your *own* sheets if you choose that option...

I might take you up on that.

Fortunately for me of the 3,000,000+ that have ditched on the SS (aren't I punny?) since 1980, a whopping 13 have been prosecuted. I think I'm comfortable taking that chance.

A friend of mine told me a few weeks back that the draft registration laws have the highest rate of non-compliance since alcohol prohibition in the 20s. I hope that's true; no one should sign their bodies away to their damn government, especially THIS government.

It's a pointless act of rebellion. There will almost certainly never be a draft, and if there is then it'll be a war you want to fight in. You're not impressing anyone by not signing up and you're not making anything like a courageous stand. You're just possibly making it somewhat harder to get certain things from the government down the line.

Pointless is my middle name. Wouldn't you agree?

Everything about you is pointless.

Actually, pointless would be some elitist bureaucrat telling Bo he has to take up arms and go die in Afghanistan.

Wow, krellin gets it!

Bo...I've got a brother that spent a year overseas having terrorists lob mortar shells at him every day. There are no fewer terrorists today than there were when he was there...maybe even more...

I get it.

krellin doesn't get it. There is no draft. You only get told to go to Afghanistan if you volunteer to join the military.

I get it, Invictus. And if there is no draft, then he shouldn't be forced to sign up!

And if we suddenly *need* a draft, then we are all truly fucked.

and if we need a draft, I'm pretty danged sure the Government knows where who we are, where we are, etc, and if they need bo, or Invictus or krellin or whomever to carry a gun, we'll be marshaled at gun-point to receive our weapon...

Hopefully I'm heading off an indignant tome someone's writing. I agree sending more Americans to die in Afghanistan is pointless. It's just that that's a separate issue.

Invictus -- and just to be clear, yes I *do* know there is not draft.