I play both and prefer PPSCM but most people disagree

What is PPSCM? Is that like a hidden option you unlock by getting a gold donator icon?

LOL, no but honestly let me explain myself i love PPSC (wish i knew what PPSCM) but to be fair i havent played any WTA and this is because the idea turns me off immediately, let me explain.

I have found that when i play a game i make an alliance and based on communication i pick one of these allies to be a long term ally one i will trust and confide in. As things develop in a long term alliance one power (usually) begins to grow more powerful than the other ally, one would hope both allies could be balanced but this is not always realistic. Recently what has happened is that this country that grows more powerful gets to 16 centers. This country than realizes that a solo is a possibility but he can only get it from taking a center from his ally. What choice do you make here? I find that some people become selfish and go for the win to boost there stats. Personally i have no problem if my ally goes for the solo as long as it does not come at my expense. With that being said i enjoy PPSC because you get rewarded for Diplomacy, you gain points for your actions through out the game, so if Russia solo's for example and Austria was his ally, Austria will still get money because he helped Russia win.

The main point i am trying to get across here is that PPSC rewards players to a certain extent even if they did not win, people get money for playing well even if that means you did not play well enough to solo

Cheers

http://cache.blippitt.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Popcorn-09-Psych.gif

PPSC is fine if you don't mind people selling out the solo in order to finish a strong second. I personally, do not like this.

True, but would you not agree that WTA like enforces a selfish attitude

"I find that some people become selfish and go for the win to boost there stats."

People don't win just for the stats. Some people win because they believe it's the entire point of playing a competitive game. Yes, PPSC rewards players for doing "pretty well," but, again, some players believe that ending the game at 16 SCs if someone else got to 18 is failure, and as such is not worthy of being rewarded.

From your perspective, stabbing an ally may be selfish, but objectively it's much harder to come to a clear conclusion depending on one's mental approach to the "true" spirit of the game (for as much as that gets argued one way or the other).

In PPSC, you get rewarded for forming one strong bond and any number of lesser ones which each get severed one after the other until it's just you and your best buddy at the end.

In WTA, you get rewarded for either organizing a coalition against the leader to prevent an outright victory, or for preventing one from forming against you if you're in that position.

To say that one format rewards diplomacy more than the other is faulty.

This is true i mean there is no doubt in my mind that WTA is a harder game type because it is really go big or go home, you place everything on the line but i still believe one can be successful without getting to 18 i would call a 17/17 split successful wouldnt you? in WTA if you get to 17/17 what happens than, personally i believe one will want draw and one will stab and all the allies efforts will be for none

If a WTA game gets to 17/17, then there was a failure on the part of the player who was most recently eliminated. Either way, it'd most likely be a draw.

To put it simply, the PPSC vs WTA mentality boils down to the player's opinion of scoring a Survive. WTA mentality is that a Win or Draw is a success while a Survive or Elimination is defeat. PPSC mentality is that a Win, Draw, or Surivive is a success while an Elimination is defeat.

You are wise beyond your years ;) Very true i cant say either or is better, its true both modes are different and should be played differently it boils down to how players enjoy to play the game and wether they play for profit or a win

You were talking about our kiss kiss russia/austria alliance weren't you... *kiss kiss*

"If a WTA game gets to 17/17, then there was a failure on the part of the player who was most recently eliminated. Either way, it'd most likely be a draw."

Not necessarily. A well played 2 majors can arrange a 17 17 against a smaller 3rd minor if the strongest (ideally with 17 SC's) pulls his troops back in a manner that the minor cannot take any SCs from him, freeing up the 2nd major to take out the minor while making a solo for either impossible

Theoretically, anyway.

I prefer WTA because I play to win (though with an unfortunate lack of success).

I imagine playing to draw/survive in a PPSC means at some point you switch from trying to expand and defeat your opponents to playing defensively to hold onto what you have for the points. BORING!

"I find that some people become selfish and go for the win to boost there stats."

Going for the win is the idea of the game. Calling it selfish doesn't really make any sense. It is every player's duty to go for the win (if they can).

"Personally i have no problem if my ally goes for the solo as long as it does not come at my expense."

Sounds like a contradiction in terms. Going for the win is, by definition, at the expense of the other players.

I don't play PPSC. I don't like it. But I accept the premise and I think playing for second is a reasonable option.

In WTA I think it each players duty to do the best they can and by whatever means. That's what makes the game challenging and rewarding. Sometimes it is necessary to stab your loyal ally. This is not selfish. This is the game. Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed, but with some skill and luck you will be prepared to handle whatever the game throws at you (such a stab).

There is only a significant difference between the two when you are playing for large number of points. People who put a large value on points, which as anyone with half a brain cell can see are completely worthless in the grand scheme of things, are rather suspect and best avoided.

5pt games are the way to go. WTA and PPSC is a none issue.

@Octavius - Completely agree re points distorting games.

I play to have fun. I don't care if it's WTA or PPSC.

The only reason I play more WTA is for GR. In PPSC, it's much harder to form a coalition to stop someone else winning. So I get more draws in WTA.

I think WTA is "better" but I get bored of every game ending in a threeway draw.

"I think WTA is "better" but I get bored of every game ending in a threeway draw."

Then get better at winning ;)

This point has been discussed so many times in this forum :)

I don't play PPSC...
The point of the game is to win...no matter who wins, hew deserves to get everything... that's the meaning of winning... if you draw...you get the same as the other players that participated of the draw.

Get "rewarded" for playing bad and let your ally take the win is just stupid in my opinion. It is not the ally that won that was selfish... it was the ally that lost that didn't have the capacity to stop the solo.

There are three metrics for success on this site: points, game record, and ghost rating. Regardless of scoring system, your goal should be to improve at least one of these scores. If throwing a solo to your ally in PPSC accomplishes this goal, then what's stupid about it?

I tend to play each game for itself (except in tournaments) without making my attitude depend on GR or points.
So throwing the game to another player just for the points only acomplishes the goal of the points which are, in my opinion, a bad way to get conclusions about the quality of a player.

This is just my opinion, of course, but before the existence of this fantastic site, Diplomacy existed for decades and each game was played for itself...and the winner took it all... there was no consolation reward for survivors. So, for me, there is only one way... the WTA way :)

Would any of you play differently if real-world money instead of D or GR was involved?

I don't think would ever play diplomacy with money involved.
But if I did, the payment system would have to be based on WTA.

That's a really good point STA... imagining the type of corruption that would run rampant with PPSC for money really highlights the disadvantages of that system. It's exactly what you see here, only worse.

WTA

Instead of tending towards 'draw'-like scenarios and odd-balances of power, the aim of the game is to get 18+ SC's ;)) ... as we know, aiming towards that goal one maybe be 'forced' to Draw :))