Different topic - but somewhat related -- You know that a person who is, for example, robbing a bank who gives a note to the teller saying he/she has a gun *will* be charged with armed robbery, even if there is no gun? The manner in which the victims are put in fear and made to suffer determines the crime, to an extent.

So...when someone breaks in to my home while I am *in it*...I have to assume the worst - that this invader is not afraid of me being there *because* they are armed and prepared to do violence to me. I'm not going to ask them, "Excuse me, Mr Robber...are you armed?" I have a *right* and a *responsibility* to my family to protect our household to teh best of my ability, up to and including using deadly force....because there is a very high percentage chance that even if I call the cops they will not make it there before whatever violence may occur to me or my family will be over and done with.

Say you're on the street and someone comes up to you and says "Give me your wallet." Can you lawfully take out a gun and shoot him? If instead he says "I have a gun, give me your wallet," without showing a firearm, do you have the right then?

@y2kjbk - I would say no in both cases, because in neither case is their crime deserving of death.

Would you have the right to pull a gun on the guy and threaten him in order to get him to run away? What if it accidentally discharges in the process?

@Mendax, you're not analyzing the issue legally. There is not "crime deserving death" there is ONLY the "reasonable fear for one's life." A self-defense defense turns upon the reasonablenes of the defendants belief that his/her life was being threatened.

If you shoot someone, you're GOING to be charged with murder almost assuredly. But, you can have a complete defense to murder in self-defense -- like Zimmerman.

"If you shoot someone, you're GOING to be charged with murder "

Completely wrong statement. When you shoot someone, there will be an investigation by the police, and it will be turned over to prosecutors who may or MAY NOT file charges.

Duhhhhh.....

mendax is *exctly* the type of sheep a criminal loves – the feckless wimp who will cower in fear as his wife and daughter are raped, who will then willingly take a bullet to the head as the home invader eliminates the witnesses, instead of daring stand up for himself and his family.

@y2k - it depends on the laws in your particular state as to what you can/can not do in various situations. As a citizen, you are responsible to know the laws, especially if you choose to arm yourself.

I'm much more likely if I try to stand up to an armed criminal than if I just give him money, especially since crime is largely a function of poverty.

much more likely to die*

Crime is a function of *poverty*? Uhhhh....NO...according to morons like you the GUN causes the crime...

And as for you are much more likely to be killed standing up to an armed criminal in your home....fine, you quiver in fear in the corner as he rapes your daughter and hope he laves you alone. Bravo for you.

I'll announce when I know he is in my home that I am armed and *will* shoot to kill, and if he sticks around instead of fleeing when he hears my gun cocking, then I will do my damndest to put a bullet in him. I'll give him ample opportunity to flee.

You, on the other hand, will spread your ass cheeks and ask him to fuck you nicely.

Then he'll kill you to eliminate witnesses.

"much more likely to die* "

Just simply a false statement. You can not prove this *at all*.

I've never said that guns cause crime. Guns make crime worse, but they don't cause it. So if you're going to try to argue, at least try to read what I've said.

Guns stop crime in it's tracks.

So if guns don't cause crimes, but are only a tool, then why shouldn't *I*, as a law abiding citizen, be able to have a *tool* that allows be to better defend my home?

Because you can be damned sure that criminals are going to be armed even if you pass laws getting rid of guns....because....uh....THEY ARE CRIMINALS and they are already disrespectful of the law.

So you don't seek to minimize the harm by crime....by disarming the *law abiding* citizens, you are in fact making crime *worse*, because the only armed citizens will be the *criminals*.

What the fuck is so hard to understand about that?

Criminals **love** gun control laws!!

I have a combat rifle, in case the government becomes the bad guy. Then predator drones get to kill me before I can use it :(

@Krellin, in re: being charged with murder...

There are very few prosecutors that are NOT going to charge a shooter even if they have a viable self defense defense. It does happen, but it is not to be counted on. Meaning, before you shoot someone you have to be PREPARED to be charged with murder, b/c in MOST places you WILL be charged.

What MichiganMan says is true, so why even defend yourself and your family? The consequences are too dire. May as well let the bad guys do as they will.

Butt-raped out in the open vs. butt-raped in jail. Six and one half, really.

MM -- I understand that I need to be prepared to be charged with murder...but your assertion that every case of a shooting in a home in self-defense = a charge of murder is simply *false*.

Regardless of whether or not his assertion is false is irrelevant. One should be prepared to lay down his life for his family.

@Amon - Even if every shooting in defense of self and family in one's own home resulted in a murder charge (not likely as many states require remediation for murder and most prosecutors wouldn't even try), a charge is not a conviction.

Ironically I happened to bump into a neat article about guns.

WARNING: Don't read this article if you're afraid of facts. The article is filled with BIG, SCARY FACTS about BIG, SCARY GUNS!

Reader beware!

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-things-gun-lovers-haters-can-agree-on/

@krellin,

The instances in which a prosecutor will refrain from charging a person who has killed another person are exceedingly rare.

@Amon,

There is no question about defending myself or my family. From the training that I have received it's best to do everything to avoid the situation to begin with. However, tragically, sometimes those situations are unavoidable. But, there are things that one can do (or not do) to make a successful defense more like should such a horrible situation arise.

First and foremost, do NOT "lay in wait" for an intruder. Meaning you wake up the sound of broken glass, you get your gun, and you take a defensive position and wait for the intruder to walk into your field of fire and you blow him away. Sensible, given the unknown circumstances of the situation, but in the eyes of the law, NOT GOOD. I am not saying it's an automatic conviction, but the DA is going to ask you whether you made any attempt to alert the intruder that you were there and that you were armed. Sounds stupid in a potential life or death situation to give up the advantage of surprise, but remember the defendant has to show conclusively that he had a reasonable fear for his life, or the life of his family. The DA is going to do everything that they can to make it look like you weren't afraid, but that you just wanted to blow the intruder away. If you were so scared why didn't you call the cops? etc. Did you know the intruder was armed? Was he, aside from his presence in your home, threatening you? Now, in Texas and other states the mere presence of an uninvited person in your home at night is considered a "threat." But, that is not going to stop the DA from making you prove legally that you were scared for your life.

I was taught by a former cop and DA that building a case starts outside the home. Signs saying that owners of the house are armed. Yeah, could attract thieves, but not very likely. Second, once someone is in your home immediately do several things. 1) call the cops, tell them specifically that someone is in your home, that you are armed and that you are SCARED FOR YOUR LIFE; 2) turn on the light; 3) shout as loud as you can, "I am armed, I have called the police, I am scared for my life, do NOT come towards me!" Sounds silly tactically, but you're doing several things to help the situation. First and foremost you're giving the intruder an opportunity to flee and avoid anyone getting hurt. Not very macho, but better for everyone. Second, you're establishing to the police, the intruder, and possibly your neighbors (who WILL be questioned as witnesses) that you were scared for you life, and that you made everyone aware that you were armed. I know to big tough guys this sounds stupid. But, if that intruder then does advance on you and you are forced to shoot him, your chances of a successful defense go up astronomically, as do your chances of not even being charged.

Just some thoughts.

kkkrellin, once again I demand that you retract your anti-Semitic comments and apologize to obi.

mapleleaf - maybe you should get your cock out of jesus-killers mouth so he can talk for himself, assclown.

By the way, there is nothing anti-Semitic about my comment. The Jews killed Jesus -- this is a fact. Obi is a Jew - he has said as much over and over again. Therefore, Obi is a Jesus-killer....simply statement of fact.

Awwwww.....does that poor little shit-sucking Canadick have a problem with people labeling and judging others based upon their nationality?

Fuck off, maple....or rather, fuck-on, because I hear Jesus-killer moaning your name again...

obi is a Centurian?

Who knew?