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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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ssorenn (0 DX)
19 Jan 14 UTC
(+4)
+1
what does the +1 mean under peoples names in the threads mean?
49 replies
Open
ssorenn (0 DX)
19 Jan 14 UTC
gunboat non-anon
it just dawned on me(duh) that if you play gunboat non-anon you can still send PM's to people...going against the actual rules---Is there a way to stop this?
15 replies
Open
Ogion (3882 D)
19 Jan 14 UTC
Bug check?
Well, I'm not sure what happened (although I'm guessing some save error so it wont' show up in any logs) but I somehow ended up with an army in Naples rather than the fleet that I thought I'd ordered.
21 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
17 Jan 14 UTC
latest on the Rhino Hunt
Death threats from animal lovers... (see bbc article whose link i have lost)
119 replies
Open
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
17 Jan 14 UTC
Obama a Socialist ....... no, the Prof is a moron
http://www.ijreview.com/2014/01/107990-story-prof-fails-entire-class-illustrate-obamas-socialism-left-furious/

This professor doesn't sound like the smartest tool in the box.... and he thinks Obama is a socialist, sounds like a by-product of a failing capitalist education system
18 replies
Open
tmchandler5 (100 D)
20 Jan 14 UTC
Need 4 more for a Classic game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=133983
0 replies
Open
Ienpw_III (117 D)
19 Jan 14 UTC
The Golden Age of Diplomacy
Does anyone else find reading Sharp's "The Game of Diplomacy" really depressing? The level of dedication and analysis that he presents in the book would never be found today. Does anyone even talk about diplomacy theory anymore, or are we just left to reading relics of the past?
7 replies
Open
Al Swearengen (0 DX)
18 Jan 14 UTC
Homework this week
Your homework this week is to speak to an octogenarian. We won't have them for very much longer and so I think it's important for young people to meet these guys.

Hippies aren't quite the same. They're uptight in a way that the people older than them weren't.
13 replies
Open
nesdunk14 (635 D)
19 Jan 14 UTC
New Ancient Mediterranean Game!
0 replies
Open
Al Swearengen (0 DX)
13 Jan 14 UTC
(+1)
The day we fight back
https://thedaywefightback.org/

142 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
19 Jan 14 UTC
Sitter
I need a sitter for one game until next Saturday. Any takers?
7 replies
Open
Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
17 Jan 14 UTC
Sickening
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2014/01/creationism_in_texas_public_schools_undermining_the_charter_movement.html
28 replies
Open
Deutschland97 (227 D)
19 Jan 14 UTC
ATTENTION ALL CONSERVATIVES...
Speaking as a conservative myself, conservatives, if you had to go liberal on any topic of debate, what would it be?
15 replies
Open
tmchandler5 (100 D)
19 Jan 14 UTC
LOOKING TO START A LIVE GAME SUNDAY 1-19-2014
Im looking to start a live game. Classic map. Anyone interested?
1 reply
Open
jhoffer007 (100 D)
19 Jan 14 UTC
Diplomacy
Hi can anyone tell me how to quit a game??
6 replies
Open
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
15 Jan 14 UTC
(+2)
Feature Idea
So, I play a lot of live games, and I make a lot of them. I would love an option that would let players make games where any NMR in the first year is an instant cancel. So, that way there's no situation where a Germany NMR's and England/France/Russia take advantage and go on to become monster powers.
21 replies
Open
Celticfox (100 D(B))
10 Dec 13 UTC
WebDip F2F 2 June 21 in Chicago
Ok guys here's the new planning thread now that we have a date and place. Do you guys want to be in Chicago itself or in the suburbs?

@Abge Since you helped with the last F2F did you guys all meet up on the Friday then play on the Saturday or how'd you work that stuff out?
144 replies
Open
Ogion (3882 D)
19 Jan 14 UTC
Please take over Germany
Still early, with 5 SCs and 3 units.

webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=133771
0 replies
Open
shield (3929 D)
19 Jan 14 UTC
Mod Question
Can you CD me in this game and give me turkey? :D :D
4 replies
Open
SantaClausowitz (360 D)
14 Jan 14 UTC
Concealed carry saves lives!
Except, well, when it turns a stupid argument into a deadly one.

http://m.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2014/0113/Movie-theater-shooting-Did-a-retired-cop-shoot-a-fellow-moviegoer-for-texting
215 replies
Open
Zachattack413 (1231 D)
18 Jan 14 UTC
High Stakes, WTA game
Anyone interested in a high-stakes, WTA game? I'm thinking 300 D buy-in, and day and a half phases, but both of these options are negotiable. Post if you are interested!
0 replies
Open
Ogion (3882 D)
17 Jan 14 UTC
How to deal with people taking advantage of CD
Well, yet again, we have a situation where a country solos because its neighbors go CD from the outset, everyone else is completely sporting about declaring a draw.

Perhaps some kind of ban on new games for a couple weeks or something for this kind of cheating?
29 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (898 D)
14 Jan 14 UTC
(+3)
How the Conservatives wasted the UK's oil windfall on tax cuts for the already wealthy
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/13/north-sea-oil-money-uk-norwegians-fund
66 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
14 Jan 14 UTC
Afghan Atheist Asylum
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25715736

Is this a world first? Respect for an atheist in court?
14 replies
Open
llama Projector (216 D)
17 Jan 14 UTC
The Foundation Series
I (at the suggestion of a forum member, who's name I forget but will hopefully identify themselves), just read the first three books in the foundation series by Isaac Asimov. After calibrating my block list by reading through a recent gun control debate thread, I'd like to ask forum dwellers for their take on this series, or at least the premise.

Premise:
In the future, mankind manages to perfect psychology (here meaning a "unified" social science, a mathematical theory that predicts action) to the extent that using mathematics, a particular scientist is able to anticipate the deterioration of the galactic empire, and constructs an elaborate plan using these calculations to shorten the ensuing dark age from 30,000 years to only 1000.

Sci-fi stuff/technological assumptions:
Warp/Hyperspace travel (every piece of space fiction written in the modern age needs this, because the size of the galaxy is relatively common knowledge, and faster-than-light is thus essential)

Powerful technology, but not really computers. Calculations are made by hand, and while advanced computers are described, they have very specific and linear functions. Although this is the same universe in which intelligent robots were created by men (i, robot), they no longer exist.

Psychohistory, the tool used to predict human action, exists as a reliable predictor of the actions of mass quantities of humans (billions), but not the actions of humans on an individual scale. Asimovs conception of social stipulates that the actions of humans are "random", and cannot by mapped reliably on an individual level (although this capability is developed later in the series).

My response:
Considering when these books were written, one can hardly fault Asimov for not anticipating the rapid proliferation, and personalization, of computers (as well as the rapidly decreasing size). The idea that human behavior is unpredictable or "random" on an individual scale is romantic, but probably wrong.
My contention (and the contention of modern psychology, predicated on neuroscientific research) is that human actions depend on a physical organ, and that organ responds in particular ways to particular stimuli. Therefore it is likely, that given a sufficiently powerful computer and sufficiently sensitive equipment, human behavior could be mapped and modelled on a computer. This (despite the topic of the thread) is not science fiction: practically every new issue of Scientific American or Nature plays into this "futurist" idea (read: fuels my confirmation bias). Given current trends, I find the development of these computers and these processes almost unavoidable during my lifetime (unless I am to meet some unforseen early end, and I assure you all that I'm currently hiding on a bunker in the rocky mountains, riding out the storm).
mendax (321 D)
17 Jan 14 UTC
I remember enjoying these books a few years ago when I read them, but it's been quite a while. I was more interested in whether the math mapping society as a whole could work, rather than the question of whether it would inevitably break down on an individual level.
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
17 Jan 14 UTC
How long will it be before we can build a self-repairing robot and a spacecraft with limitless power source that can travel forever seeking out worlds suitable to sustain human (or robot) life.
If we were ever to 'settle' on another planet I would expect it would be manned by robots. Once we create a robot that can self-perpetuate they could be our future. Our current civilization may not survive another ice age or a meteor strike but maybe robots can & will........ as long as we don't teach them how to be evil.
krellin (80 DX)
17 Jan 14 UTC
I just want one of the walnut-sized personal shields.
Putin33 (111 D)
17 Jan 14 UTC
My question is, did Al Qaeda (foundation) base their name on this series?

I only read the first book, but it remains my favorite sci-fi book. I do not agree that human behavior can be mapped on an individual level. Too many variables.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
17 Jan 14 UTC
Human behaviour can be mapped, but there is a physical limit to processing that many variables - once you know you're being mapped, for example, you could alter your behaviour.

Doing one human would be possible, doing all of them unlikely (in our life time, unless perhaps self-replicating robots decide to cull the pop down to about 10,000... I think that was the premise of some good sci-fi books)

Evil can not be taught. It is an emergent property, learning and developing are two different things, and teaching seems closer to programing - you can't hardcode in some' don't be evil' instructions; you can create a neural net which develops/learns the meaning of evil... Which i think s a problen with Current AI attempts, though we're getting better.

I heartily reccomend you stop reading the series at book 3 (it was originally published as a trilogy and there being no robots or aliens is fine, they just don't exist in-Universe for whatever reason - the later explaination is less compelling imho)
semck83 (229 D(B))
17 Jan 14 UTC
For somebody who talks about science all the time, ora, you sure have a lot of beliefs that don't have a shred of evidence supporting them.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
17 Jan 14 UTC
(+1)
@semck, my beliefs are informed by science, what informs yours?
semck83 (229 D(B))
17 Jan 14 UTC
@ora,

Science, Scripture, reason, and literature, primarily. But my point was that, *given* that you claim that science informs your belief, I wonder how you support such claims as that, "Doing one human would be possible"? Certainly there is no scientific evidence for that.
shigzeo (1080 D)
17 Jan 14 UTC
The first three (and only real canonical) Foundation books are absolute classics. I read the series in three days back when I was twelve and have read it again twice since then.

What I dig most from the Foundation series is the number of impossible circumstances both foundations must overcome, but particularly the Mule. At first, the rapid sweep from generation to generation made it difficult to internalise the story, but I got to like it. When the macro story of the 2nd and 1st foundations and their opposition to each other became the main story, it took me a while to get into it as well.

Though not as detailed or epic as a number of stories from the era, Foundation retains the simplicity and joy of the 2nd golden age of the genre. And I may read it again this year. Thanks for the memory
orathaic (1009 D(B))
18 Jan 14 UTC
"Doing one human would be possible"? Certainly there is no scientific evidence for that.

- i mean from a computational point of view, assuming that humans are physical objects (and there's no scientific evidence to suggest that they are not) The sheer quantity of computational power required is possible. I don't see how you have a problem since most religious people believe God can predict what we will do, so in principle i'm just talking about something you think IS possible.
semck83 (229 D(B))
18 Jan 14 UTC
"- i mean from a computational point of view, assuming that humans are physical objects (and there's no scientific evidence to suggest that they are not) The sheer quantity of computational power required is possible. "

This raises a lot of questions. First of all, it might not even be possible (via the no-clone theorems) to know the state of a human well enough to simulate him, though this depends on the extent to which quantum degrees of freedom end up being relevant.

Second of all, even if there aren't any no-go theorems, the technology still isn't even vaguely close to existing to map the brain well enough. Is it possible some technology like that might exist some day? Well, I suppose, but there's also no evidence that it will. Certainly there's no idea what it would be like.

Third, it's far from clear the computing power will ever exist. They just simulated 1% of a brain for second, and it took the world's most powerful computer 40 minutes. Might they grow fast enough to something more substantial? Possibly. Might they not? Also possible. We don't know right now. And of course, the brain wouldn't be enough -- you'd have to simulate the whole body, and also a lot of the environment, since the behavior would all depend on that in myriad ways.

All of which, and more, is what led me to say that your cool assurance in saying that, "Doing one human would be possible" is really remarkable -- there is simply no evidence for such a proposition.

"I don't see how you have a problem since most religious people believe God can predict what we will do, so in principle i'm just talking about something you think IS possible. "

Of course, I don't think God does it by simulation, but in any event, my problem wasn't a theological one -- it was just an observation that there is a lack of scientific evidence for the technological ability you are claiming.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
18 Jan 14 UTC
I'm not convinced we need to understand the brain very much at all to simulate behavior. With the vast amount of information being collected about people's interests and movements, I suspect to see very sophisticated predictions of people's actions in the not-too-distant future.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
18 Jan 14 UTC
'there is simply no evidence for such a proposition.' - i entirely disagree, you've just discussed a lot of evidence on how it would be possible, not easy, but all those things are descriptions of how it would be possible.
tendmote (100 D(B))
18 Jan 14 UTC
@orathaic " i mean from a computational point of view, assuming that humans are physical objects "

Not everything is computable, and computation is always a shorthand for roughly predicting what will occur within the universe. Moreover some calculations vary so wildly with respect to their inputs that the result is simply chaos. Your estimate that "doing one human is possible" is pure guesswork and probably bullshit.
krellin (80 DX)
18 Jan 14 UTC
I tend to agree with abge, and I will refer to IBM's recent work as reference - the super-computer Watson, now the size of three pizza boxes, which has a nuanced understanding of language.

So imagine an dvanced society, ala Harry Seldon, with obviously more advanced technology. Modeling and predicting human behavior isn't reallythat big a deal -- the brain, while highly complex, is still just a physical "device" with inputs, outputs, memory and complex computational capacity. Stop thinking there is something magical about being human and such questions become much less daunting.

Anyway, as I recall, Harry Seldon didn't predict individual behavior, but modelled society, in which the idea of certian events occuring is predicted, and he left caveats for "If someone arises to power and does A then X, else there will be 10,000 years of chaos" or something like that.
Randomizer (722 D)
18 Jan 14 UTC
Modeling works fine for a large enough sample where individual behavior gets averaged out. But with the example of a mutant in the series that has sufficient power to provide a large aberration from group behavior, the equations aren't able to calculate the effect and need intervention to balance it out.

Exact calculations of every individual items requires more computing power than normally available.


17 replies
LStravaganz (407 D)
05 Jan 14 UTC
Ashes Whitewash
The title says it all.
10 replies
Open
Sevyas (973 D)
17 Jan 14 UTC
anyone up for a slow full press semi-anonym wta?
I propose
30 buy-in
3 days/phase
0 replies
Open
Antracia (3494 D)
17 Jan 14 UTC
Ancient Med Game - Baleares
So I've got a question about the Ancient Med map:
4 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
15 Jan 14 UTC
Net neutrality, and what it really means
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25743200

Interesting, court prevents regulation - or at least FCC is not allowed enforce an even playground. What is the politics behind this?
20 replies
Open
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
17 Jan 14 UTC
Devil Baby
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUKMUZ4tlJg
4 replies
Open
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