"Who are you to dictate what justifies Israeli violence vs. Hamas?

And Palestinians chose Hamas as a representative government faction, first in Gaza, now as part of a joint government...

Seems a double standard to chastise Israel for considering Palestinians as part of Hamas when they themselves seem only too happy to elect and identify with the group."

You can't keep your story straight.

" It's rather hard for an OUTSIDER to make that distinction when Hamas and non-Hamas people live in the same area and look and operate the same, as Hamas seeks to blend into the surroundings."

Funny you don't make that apology for Syria when they're attacking ISIS terrorists.

Because Israel is a 'good guy'.

"It certainly hasn't mattered in the West Bank, where Palestinians haven't even been resisting for years. They still keep expanding settlements."

And if you'd read the comments and actually be fair, you'll see I've already condemned that, and said the PLO are in the right and Israel is in the wrong regarding settlements in the West Bank.

I am talking about Hamas. PERIOD.

Hamas are not Palestinians but don't blame Israel for thinking they are.

That's what you've now said.

Completely incoherent babble.

"Funny you don't make that apology for Syria when they're attacking ISIS terrorists."

Before I answer, could you answer WHICH Syria we're talking about this time?

Assad's Syria, the rebel's Syria, the ISIS parts of Syria...

Can't generalize and just say "Syria" these days, sadly...

"And if you'd read the comments and actually be fair, you'll see I've already condemned that, and said the PLO are in the right and Israel is in the wrong regarding settlements in the West Bank.

I am talking about Hamas. PERIOD."

Right but we seem to know what Israel will do from their actions in the West Bank. No resistance but continued expansion. Why should we believe anything will be different if their excuse of Hamas goes away?

"Can't generalize and just say "Syria" these days, sadly."

Why don't you just behave honestly for once? You know what I'm talking about. The Syrian government. You don't use that kind of excuse when the Syrian government pounds terrorists. You've been condemning the Syrian government since day one, and voicing support for the terrorists (excuse me "Syrian people").

"Hamas are not Palestinians but don't blame Israel for thinking they are."

Actually, it'd be "Palestinians are not Hamas," but for someone as hung up on semantics, I'm sure that doesn't matter at all, right?

And yeah--

What have we seen when the world views the USA?

During the Bush years, if they knew nothing else, might they not associate us all with Dubya...

Which clearly doesn't apply to you, but how are they to know that just by LOOKING at you?

"Why don't you just behave honestly for once? You know what I'm talking about. The Syrian government."

I am honest--WHICH?

If you mean the Assad regime, that being the "legitimate" (and I use that term as loosely as possible) government...

I frankly see him AND the ISIS as both pieces of shit, I back neither in that fight.

I just want to say that ISIS is not just terrorists it is an entirely new nation. There are people that fight for it that choose to use fear as a weapon and those are the terrorists but simply because they are armed and middle eastern doesnt mean they are a terrorist. The women and children that live as members of the new nation ISIS certainly are not terrorists. Similarly there are plenty of ordinary people in Syria, Libya, Israel, Afghanistan, Iraq, and etc but there are some as well that again choose to use fear as a weapon and thus are terrorists. Please stop branding every non american a terrorist its very short sighted

"I frankly see him AND the ISIS as both pieces of shit, I back neither in that fight."

Because you're a giant hypocrite.

"Actually, it'd be "Palestinians are not Hamas," but for someone as hung up on semantics, I'm sure that doesn't matter at all, right?

And yeah--

What have we seen when the world views the USA?

During the Bush years, if they knew nothing else, might they not associate us all with Dubya.."

This is incomprehensible.

So Palestinians should be associated with Hamas or shouldn't they?

You keep arguing both sides.

ISIS is much worse than Hamas in terms of violence and ruthlessness (see: crucifictions) but you don't want to back Assad even though all the ethnic and religious minorities do and condemn Assad for killing terrorists in Syria while apologizing for every action done by Israel.

"And considering how much you geniuses enjoy harping on any prediction I might get wrong, why should I make any more predictions?"

1. Might not harp on it so much if you weren't such a smug impossible prick...that kind of stuff makes people WANT to see you wrong (trust me, I know.) ;)

Nobody picks on abgemacht or bo_sox or Octavious...

We don't harp on them because, hey, guess what? They're likeable guys!

You're about as likeable as, well, your namesake (which I might add ALSO makes you an easy target...and you had to know that choosing that name--you can't complain you have a target on your back when you do so much to paint it on yourself...take your lumps and move on.)

2. You, get a prediction wrong? That'd NEVER happen...

So you've convinced me--Israeli citizens would assuredly NEVER face massacres and attacks from Hamas if Israel would dissolve as a government...just as assuredly as Crimea will always be a part of Ukraine, and never annexed by a foreign power.

"ISIS is much worse than Hamas in terms of violence and ruthlessness (see: crucifictions) but you don't want to back Assad even though all the ethnic and religious minorities do and condemn Assad for killing terrorists in Syria while apologizing for every action done by Israel."

I'm terribly sorry for not wanting to back EITHER turd of an option, ISIS or Assad.

"Israeli citizens would assuredly NEVER face massacres and attacks from Hamas if Israel would dissolve as a government..."

That's not what I said you liar. You just got done mocking me for not wanting to make a prediction and now you're claiming I made a prediction. DO YOU EVER BOTHER TO READ WHAT ANYBODY ELSE WRITES?

And I notice you STILL have not bothered to respond to the point about Iran vs the Iranian regime. Another convenient dodge because you need to act all emotional about Israel and Hamas.

"I'm terribly sorry for not wanting to back EITHER turd of an option, ISIS or Assad."

I'm terribly sorry for not wanting to back EITHER turd of an option, Israel or Hamas.

Hypo-fucking-crite.

"Nobody picks on abgemacht or bo_sox or Octavious...

We don't harp on them because, hey, guess what? They're likeable guys!"

People pick on you all the time. Are you saying you're unlikeable?

It's pathetic that you're trying to play the popularity card for yourself. Talking about webdip in the "we" tense.

"So Palestinians should be associated with Hamas or shouldn't they?"

Should they be associated POLITICALLY?
At least partially...they DID elect them...
Should they be associated PERSONALLY?
No...not all of them...

But how is an Israeli soldier with a second to react when someone lobs a device (as has been happening) supposed to know at a glance who's affiliated with Hamas and who's just an innocent protester?

Tell me how an Israeli is supposed to distinguish them on sight?

THAT'S the problem--

Not if they necessarily SHOULD be associated, but that they ARE, because from the soldier's perspective, he's there to save his own skin and that of his countrymen first...how is he supposed to know who's who when Hamas blends in as it does?

Answer me that--what would you have the Israeli soldiers do, how are they supposed to know?

"I'm terribly sorry for not wanting to back EITHER turd of an option, Israel or Hamas."

I don't take issue with you not backing Israel...

I take issue with you equating it with Hamas.

You CAN call Israel a problematic state or even a bad state--I'd obviously disagree--without equating it to an irredeemable terror group.

"Answer me that--what would you have the Israeli soldiers do, how are they supposed to know?"

How are Syrian soldiers supposed to know? How were Germans supposed to know in WWII? How are Russian soldiers supposed to know in Chechnya? How are Chinese soldiers supposed to know in Xinjiang? How are Americans supposed to know in Vietnam?

But you're not a neocon, but you're an apologist for killing Palestinian civilians because they all 'look alike'.

"You CAN call Israel a problematic state or even a bad state--I'd obviously disagree--without equating it to an irredeemable terror group."

You equated a progressive secular minority-inclusive regime in Syria with the throat cutting crucifiers in the ISIS.

Like I said, double standards.

"And I notice you STILL have not bothered to respond to the point about Iran vs the Iranian regime."

I thought I did, with my overly-sarcastic remark visa vi my friend who maybe possibly kinda sorta is from somewhere remarkably like Iran and is Iranian but is in NO WAY my Iranian Friend.

"You equated a progressive secular minority-inclusive regime in Syria with the throat cutting crucifiers in the ISIS."

I equated a brutal tyrant responsible for killing his own people with throat cutting crucifiers in the ISIS.

But, hey, that's right...you LIKE that little brutal tyrant responsible for killing his own people (and potentially for using chemical weapons!)

That IS kind of a thing with you, though, isn't it?

@obi - I agree entirely that the UK govt has a duty to protect its citizens. But it can't protect its citizens by encouraging more attacks. The only solution to terrorism is some kind of reconciliation. You can not destroy a community and hope you kill their ideas and aims, particularly if their aims and goals have some validity. I'm not suggesting going easy on terrorist, meet force with force if needs be, but only use force on those committing offences. Hitting innocents just increases the number of people who iwl take up arms against you. Just look at the Irish republican's PR at the time of the troubles, they constantly refer to Bloody Sunday which was in effect one of the most professional armies in the world attacking a civil rights march. They constantly try to use internment and the temporary use of diplock courts to stress to their supporters how the state was restricting human rights. They campaigned hard on extra judicial killings such as the gibralta deaths even though those deaths were terrorists.

Every terrorist organisation relies on their public's support. Giving terrorists the means to keep their unarmed supporters on side merely prolongs the struggle.

"BUT, Hamas doesn't WANT a regime change...they want Israeli men, women, and children DEAD, as well as the state COMPLETELY destroyed."

You just keep repeating this mantra as if it were self-evidently true, when the only thing you have to go on is your repeated equation of the Israeli state with the Israeli people. But you're not willing to apply the same logic to those who want the Iranian regime destroyed.

So no you didn't answer it.

"But, hey, that's right...you LIKE that little brutal tyrant responsible for killing his own people"

"His own people".

So if Syria kills terrorists, it's "killing their own people". But if Israel kills terrorists, it's just killing terrorists.

How does your brain compartmentalize the totally different standards you hold for the people you like vs the people you don't?

"People pick on you all the time. Are you saying you're unlikeable?"

No...didn't fall for that trap...notice I didn't include myself int that group? ;)

abgemacht and bo_sox and Octavious and those guys ARE likeable, lol...

You and I? Not so much.

"It's pathetic that you're trying to play the popularity card for yourself. Talking about webdip in the "we" tense."

1. Not playing the popularity card for ME (that'd be stupid, I'm not popular!) but simply pointing out why maybe, just maybe you MIGHT get picked on (were you just that kid in high school who got picked on every day and could never figure out WHY the other kids didn't like you?)

2. You don't get to paint a big red target on yourself and then cry...I don't when people piss on things I like here, like Israel or Shakespeare or my teams or views or whatever, or call me an idiot--

You make yourself a target...YOU'RE A TARGET. YOU'LL GET RIDICULED.

WELCOME TO THE INTERNET.

3. But we ARE a we, Putin...

Don't you feel the love and camaraderie in this WebDip collective?

And we're not allowed to equate Israel and Hamas, even though Israel kills civilians in larger numbers. But we are allowed to equate Syria and the ISIS, even though Syria is protecting minorities and ISIS wants to crucify and behead them all.

By the way--

By the power vested in my by...um...the Invisible Pink Unicorn...

I hereby declare a truce effective at kickoff (or whatever you call it) of the USA/Belgium game.

We can continue this endless war discussing an endless war afterwards.