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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Tolstoy (1962 D)
27 Oct 13 UTC
Any dog lovers here?
Every 98 minutes, a dog is shot by law enforcement. Help us tell their stories.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1850434439/puppycide-the-documentary
111 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
27 Oct 13 UTC
A Crazy Ending to Game 3 of the World Series--Cardinals Win on an Obstruction Call
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=009oTwaaXEs
St. Louis goes up 2-1 in the Series in one of oddest endings in WS history.
Decide for yourself--good call, or were the Red Sox robbed?
30 replies
Open
Yonni (136 D(S))
28 Oct 13 UTC
Lou Reed dead at 71
http://www.cbc.ca/news/arts/lou-reed-dead-at-71-1.2253579

Big loss.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkbpmFOuKrc
5 replies
Open
philcore (317 D(S))
28 Oct 13 UTC
who's in ft lauderdale florida for the next two days and wants a drink on philcore?
I'll buy you a drink if I know who you are (from here, that is - obviously if I knew you IRL I'd just call you ) and want to meet up somewhere close to where I'm staying.

I'm a lot of fun to meet up with when I'm on vacation. Nigee can confirm.
2 replies
Open
semck83 (229 D(B))
22 Oct 13 UTC
(+8)
Putin33 the liar
In another thread ("Hey guys... another school shooting"), putin33 asked me for evidence that he makes things up out of whole cloth to support his rhetoric.
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semck83 (229 D(B))
22 Oct 13 UTC
(+3)
I've been thinking of posting this old example anyway, as I watched with incredulity in various places that he says, "I don't make things up" (or words to that effect), but I didn't. Now he's asked me to, so I will.

It's a little involved, but I hope you'll bear with me. In the end, it's one of the most blatant lies I've ever seen on this or any forum.

Back in May of 2012, on Mujus's Bible-reading thread, putin made the surprising claim that Jesus' apostles were violent people. I'm sure it's not an issue that interests many on webdip, and I pursued it myself mostly because I couldn't imagine what the heck he was talking about. It turned out, rather amusingly, that he was citing various thoroughly supernaturalist hero myths that were written in the 4th or 5th centuries (which he cited as "historical records").

ANYWAY. He linked to some 700+-page book and assured me that the stories were in there. When I pressed him for details (page numbers), he eventually said this:

"Evidently James was executed for impregnating a governor's wife. How nice. (p. 70 and thereabouts)."

When I looked up the actual story (a myth in any case, like I say), it was about Saint James praying for the barren wife of the governor, that she might have a child; he was then executed because the governor was upset at the growing influence of Christians.

However insignificant the discussion may have been, it was a completely staggering misrepresentation of what the story said. I posted an outraged response at the time, and putin never replied. In fact, I don't think he ever returned to that thread. I never mentioned it again, but I have not forgotten that putin33 will say anything he needs to about evidence in the hope that nobody will check him. And I now bring it up again, because he asked me to and called me a liar for accusing him.

The link is here:

http://webdiplomacy.net/forum.php?threadID=868339&page-thread=23#threadPager

The story ends up at the very top of page 24.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
22 Oct 13 UTC
(+3)
http://i.imgur.com/VWr6I.gif
SantaClausowitz (360 D)
22 Oct 13 UTC
I want a flying lawn mower.
Invictus (240 D)
22 Oct 13 UTC
(+3)
That really is a bold-faced lie. Not only is it a total misrepresentation of what's supposed to have happened, but it's from a extra-canonical legend not from the text of the Bible itself, and involved only oen Apostle even though Putin33 uses it to make the claim that the Apostles plural were violent people.

Why bother lying when he could make the same point over Peter cutting off that guy's ear?
krellin (80 DX)
22 Oct 13 UTC
Errr....even if the story were true, Putin is equating James having a roll in the hay with the Gov'ners wife as "violent"...lol

Tells you a little bit about how much action Putin is getting...he likes to keep the violence strictly to himself...<whacka-whacka-whacka...>
Gen. Lee (7588 D(B))
22 Oct 13 UTC
Did you know, putin33 impregnated jack Klein...and he donkey punched her right at the moment of conception! It's true see page 347.
Putin33 (111 D)
22 Oct 13 UTC
The wife of the governor of Jerusalem goes to James complaining that she has been trying to have a child for decades. Lo and behold after meeting James she is pregnant. The governor becomes very angry and asks the nobility to do something about James.

This is the blatant lie you've drummed up? Pathetic.

"it's one of the most blatant lies I've ever seen on this or any forum."

You really have a flair for both histrionics and selective outrage. Considering you have to go back to May of 2012 to work up your rage (when you imply I make up shit all the time, projection), when people here post complete and utter horseshit time and time again, exposed by both me and others with link after link, only to be ignored by you because it serves your purposes. In the very thread you're outraged about I exposed Obi for lying about Marx being an anti-Semite.

"In fact, I don't think he ever returned to that thread."

Which is not a fact. See page 28 for my return to the thread.



Putin33 (111 D)
22 Oct 13 UTC
And naturally Semck ignores the rest of the thread where I document the violent associations of the Apostles.
Invictus (240 D)
22 Oct 13 UTC
So... you didn't use the story to claim the Apostles were violent people?
Invictus (240 D)
22 Oct 13 UTC
It's also a pretty cheap trick to use extra-Biblical stories to make the Apostles out to be violent people. Christians only claim the Bible to be inerrant, not every tale involving these people.
Putin33 (111 D)
22 Oct 13 UTC
We don't have any information on the lives of the Apostles from the gospels, so how the hell else are we supposed to learn anything about them?

Face it, you're just bandwagoning on Semck because you think he's onto something here.
Putin33 (111 D)
22 Oct 13 UTC
"So... you didn't use the story to claim the Apostles were violent people?"

The line about James was a throwaway line in a post otherwise completely about the violent associations of the Apostles, which Semck conveniently ignored.

semck83 (229 D(B))
22 Oct 13 UTC
"The wife of the governor of Jerusalem goes to James complaining that she has been trying to have a child for decades. Lo and behold after meeting James she is pregnant. The governor becomes very angry and asks the nobility to do something about James. "

Wrong again. The story is quite explicit that she conceives after leaving James, so she is not pregnant after the meeting. Moreover, it's quite explicit that all James does is pray and bless her and tell her that if she believes God will bless her with a child, then He will. To use the term "impregnate" about this remains a staggering lie.

Here is the link to the original story for anybody who wants to read it for themselves and be dazzled by putin's mendacity:

http://archive.org/download/contendingsofapo02budguoft/contendingsofapo02budguoft.pdf

Start on page 82.

"Considering you have to go back to May of 2012 to work up your rage (when you imply I make up shit all the time, projection)"

It was the clearest, most blatant case that I had easily in memory. Why wouldn't I use it?

"'In fact, I don't think he ever returned to that thread.

"Which is not a fact. See page 28 for my return to the thread."

Sorry, putin did return to the thread. Just not that discussion on it.

Anyway, I am happy to let people read that record and judge for themselves about your honesty with sources.
Invictus (240 D)
22 Oct 13 UTC
(+1)
That's like using fan fiction in literary criticism. Christianity is based on the Bible, not the extra-canonical stories which may include the same characters.

Even us Catholics don't have to believe in every hagiography.
semck83 (229 D(B))
22 Oct 13 UTC
Oh, it was certainly absurd to be using these documents. Among the other amusing things, the rest of the stories putin33 cited were supernatural (calling down fire on a city, e.g.), which put him in the awkward position of having to choose between standing by his sources, or denying supernaturalism.

But that's just appalling reasoning, and that's nothing new. What's especially striking about the example I highlight here is the LIE that it represents about what the (admittedly utterly unreliable) source he himself posted actually said.
Putin33 (111 D)
22 Oct 13 UTC
"The story is quite explicit that she conceives after leaving James, so she is not pregnant after the meeting."

It says the following:

"After this thing God harkened unto her petition and gave unto her that which she desired, and she conceived and gave birth unto a son she named James".

This is a woman who has had sex for 20 years and not become pregnant. She sees this magic fertility wonder-man and all of a sudden she becomes pregnant. Maybe Semck is a little fuzzy on the state of medical technology in Bronze Age Jerusalem but I assure you they did not have the capacity to verify the time & date of conception, nor did they have fertility drugs. Why did the story say the governor was angry after his wife became impregnanted via James's "blessing"?
semck83 (229 D(B))
22 Oct 13 UTC
Because he hated James (already before that -- see p. 82) and was angry that his wife had patronized him.

I'm amazed that you're treating this as a historical document, though. This is truly a wonder to behold.
Putin33 (111 D)
22 Oct 13 UTC
These unreliable sources are ancient Ethiopic texts, some of the earliest texts related to early Christianity that have been found. They're about as reliable as the gospels, which dictate your entire life.
Invictus (240 D)
22 Oct 13 UTC
(+1)
Or, you know, it could have just been all made up. No reason to hold Christians to it being true since it's not canonical. Like I said, it might as well be fan fiction.

I really wouldn't have figured you as the kind of person who thought there was any historical backing to the Jesus story. You're kind of implying that, since if the story's made up then why not have the God character actually help the governor's wife conceive? Why even discuss how James did a little of the old in-out if he wasn't a real person?

Could it be that you just want to attack Christianity at any possible opportunity, the finer implications be damned?
Invictus (240 D)
22 Oct 13 UTC
(+2)
"They're about as reliable as the gospels, which dictate your entire life."

So... you're saying the Gospels are reliable now? I don't think you really realize how much you're conceding in this attack.
semck83 (229 D(B))
22 Oct 13 UTC
They're from the sixth century. The Gospels are from the first century, second at the latest.

But even if what you say were not another fiction, it would still be amazing to see you treat them as historic texts, because you don't do that with the gospels, and these are even more filled with the supernatural than those. In fact, as I pointed out, the very stories you pointed to in the linked thread rely through and through on supernaturalism. You pointed to two of the apostles calling down fire on a city as an example of their violence. Do you really think that happened?
Putin33 (111 D)
22 Oct 13 UTC
"Because he hated James (already before that -- see p. 82) and was angry that his wife had patronized him."

And you call me dishonest?

In the *very next paragraph* after describing Piobsata getting pregnant, it says

"But whem Aumanius heard of it, he was very wrath, by reason of this that his wife had done".

The 'patronizing him' you're just making up. You accuse me of making the biggest lie on the history of webdip and yet you're interpreting shit however you want.
Invictus (240 D)
22 Oct 13 UTC
He can't be angry twice?
semck83 (229 D(B))
22 Oct 13 UTC
Yes, putin. It says, as you quote, "But whem Aumanius heard of it, he was very wrath, by reason of this that his wife had done." And what had she done? She had gone to see St. James for a blessing, when (p. 82) her husband hated St. James. Aumanius goes on to complain to the nobles of all the evil things St. James is doing or will do. Impregnating his wife isn't on the list.

But you're content to assume that "this that his wife had done" does not actually refer to what the text has just told you his wife did. I'm not surprised, I suppose, at your treatment of historical sources. (Not that this is one, but you seem to think it is).
semck83 (229 D(B))
22 Oct 13 UTC
By the way, please answer my question. Do you take it as history that the Apostles destroyed Scythia by calling down fire from heaven?
President Eden (2750 D)
22 Oct 13 UTC
Wait, you went with this one instead of the gun deaths stat in the thread tonight?

I'm with Putin, this is a rather underwhelming choice given the wide breadth of available source material for your query.
semck83 (229 D(B))
22 Oct 13 UTC
For those keeping track at home, here is the putin approach to sources that has emerged on this thread:

1. Putin reads a source.
2. Putin reinterprets it to mean whatever he would like it to mean, irrespective of what it actually says.
3. Putin asserts the result of step 2, and also asserts that the source supports his assertion.

I stand by my characterization of this process as lying about sources.
Putin33 (111 D)
22 Oct 13 UTC
"They're from the sixth century. The Gospels are from the first century, second at the latest."

We don't have any original manuscripts of the Gospels, the earliest copies we have are from 350 AD. But that's enough for you to control your life.

"Could it be that you just want to attack Christianity at any possible opportunity, the finer implications be damned?"

Could it be that you have no clue what the original conversation was about, as you're too lazy to look up the conversation, and just bandwagoning off Semck because you have nothing better to do?

The conversation was about the violence of the Apostles. To sit here and claim you can't use anything but gospels to talk about the lives of the Apostles is to make the case that nothing can ever be said about the lives of Apostles. The only historical texts are the gospels and since they say nothing, then we know nothing.

"it would still be amazing to see you treat them as historic texts, because you don't do that with the gospels"

That's a lie. I participated in the 'Great Debate' where I did precisely that.

As usual Semck is making shit up.

"You pointed to two of the apostles calling down fire on a city as an example of their violence. Do you really think that happened?"

No but the fact that they did speaks to their state of mind and violent nature. They weren't preaching peace, love, and warm fuzzies, like you Christians like to claim.


semck83 (229 D(B))
22 Oct 13 UTC
The gun death stats one, PE, could be interpreted as either a lie or just a use of completely irrelevant statistics. There is no interpretation of this except as a lie. That's not as common as you think (lots of putin's lies could also pass for very bad reasoning), so I value the clarity of this example.
Invictus (240 D)
22 Oct 13 UTC
I still don't understand why it's some knockout blow to say that there are stories outside of the Bible of the Apostles doing things a modern reader may understand as bad. Christians don't claim these stories to be true. There's enough to criticize in the text of the Bible itself, you don't need to bring in wholly irrelevant arguments like this. It's just such a waste of time to try and make late antiquity legends out to be gotchas.

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86 replies
y2kjbk (4846 D(G))
27 Oct 13 UTC
Open world gunboat position
gameID=127090

Solid South Africa just went CD, someone jump in!
1 reply
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
25 Oct 13 UTC
NFL Pick 'em: Week 8--the Niners in London Town, Romo/Stafford, and the Pack Back on SNF
So I missed posting for Thursday Night Football...but if everyone didn't already have the PANTHERS over the Bucs anyway...get out. Elsewhere, the Niners look to crush, erm, stomp, erm, play the Jaguars in a highly competitive game in Wembley Stadium (who do we always give London the bad games?) Romo's Cowboys and Stafford's Lions both have something to prove, the Vikings have to find a QB, all this and more, so, Week 8--PICK 'EM!
10 replies
Open
sirdallas (1202 D)
27 Oct 13 UTC
Come join the American Burger Joint.
We need 4 more players for ANcient Med.
1 reply
Open
steephie22 (182 D(S))
26 Oct 13 UTC
Crusader Kings 2 choosing which character to play
I can't choose.
I have Islamic expansion and the Rome-thingy and some other stuff.
What characters are a blast? I have had much fun with all the Spanish king brothers but I'm done with them. What else?
11 replies
Open
josunice (3702 D(S))
27 Oct 13 UTC
No Press is Best - @125 GB series
GB tourney going well, but looking for more action.
gameID=128176 gameID=128177 gameID=128178
more to come if these fill...
2 replies
Open
gnuvag (621 D)
25 Oct 13 UTC
What's the point?
What's the point?
15 replies
Open
Danny (100 D)
26 Oct 13 UTC
Modern Diplomacy game - needs 9 more players!
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=128157
Modern Europe map
0 replies
Open
Xildur (2284 D)
26 Oct 13 UTC
Cancelling A Game
In this game: gameID=127824
52 replies
Open
JECE (1248 D)
18 Oct 13 UTC
(+1)
You are posting the same message again, please don't post repeat messages.
I'm sorry if this has been brought up before, but this useful feature which prevents your browser from posting your messages repeatedly when you did not intend to do so is missing something; it is missing a semicolon.
30 replies
Open
steephie22 (182 D(S))
25 Oct 13 UTC
GTA 5, Call of Duty Ghosts or Battlefield 4 (all PC)
See inside.
25 replies
Open
ILN (100 D)
26 Oct 13 UTC
Way to happiness
Unhappy? Depressed? Discontent? Just "not feeling it"?
Well wait no more! The happiness agency is here!

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/L/LT_VENEZUELA_DEPARTMENT_OF_HAPPINESS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-10-25-15-29-24
2 replies
Open
MarchKing (113 D)
26 Oct 13 UTC
PassWord
I'm new to wedDiplomacy. P-Word will not let me join.....It's the same one I log into the site, right? What am I missing???

Thanks!
2 replies
Open
shield (3929 D)
25 Oct 13 UTC
Winning:
I've been playing for some time now. Lately I am usually the biggest player in or close to and get forces into a draw. Any advice for turning this into more wins?
19 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
21 Oct 13 UTC
(+1)
Americans, wake up
http://progressivevoices.com/white-house-on-french-nsa-complaint-all-nations-spy/ Your nation is losing its grip. I know I've brought it up a couple of times but one day, years from now, hell's going to break lose and you're all gonna say: there was this guy on webdip who wouldn't shut up about the US becoming more and more inward.
103 replies
Open
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
26 Oct 13 UTC
Could be worse .... you could be female in Saudi Arabia
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24658753
Our good friends the Saudis are up to their old tricks again, and just when you thought it was only gays and blacks that were still oppressed
17 replies
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Mujus (1495 D(B))
26 Oct 13 UTC
Special Bible Verse of the Day
The latest in an occasional posting of a special Bible verse.
1 reply
Open
Hannibal01 (100 D)
25 Oct 13 UTC
Does everyone cheat in this game?
Once again, I am playing a game in which there are "anonymous" players, and no "in game" messaging, and there is obvious collaboration. Is this standard? Do players believe that because it only states "no in game" messaging that it is okay to have "out of game" messaging?
20 replies
Open
dirge (768 D(B))
25 Oct 13 UTC
voting rights
Yeah i think the voting rights act was a good thing, but am I the only one who wonders why liberals take it as fact that some people can not be expected to go get picture id card?
119 replies
Open
SantaClausowitz (360 D)
26 Oct 13 UTC
Drawing/canceling a game in gunboat
What is the etiquette for one player missing several turns in gunboat? Several? When is a draw appropriate and when is a cancel? Is it bad form to do nothing or to change when you start winning?
10 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
23 Oct 13 UTC
why do you hate freedom.
yes, you. why?

why.
59 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
25 Oct 13 UTC
It Took Three Days
For someone else to shoot it up. Just saying, guys. Can't say nothing's wrong here; you and I both know that's bullshit. Thankfully not a fatal incident.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/10/24/shooter-at-us-navybasecaptured.html
10 replies
Open
Yonni (136 D(S))
25 Oct 13 UTC
Reflektor
To get you through Friday, here's a link of a stream of Arcade Fire's new album. 90 goddamn minutes long but I've really enjoyed the single so far so I'm looking forward to this:
http://m.rollingstone.com/music/news/stream-arcade-fires-reflektor-20131024
3 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
25 Oct 13 UTC
Poverty effective form of abuse.
Quality of life? motherboard.vice.com/blog/growing-up-poor-is-bad-for-your-brain
Science!
10 replies
Open
fokkothebarbarian (100 DX)
24 Oct 13 UTC
Playing with 2 accounts
I am playing with some friends the online game of Modern Diplomacy.
One of our friends has stepped out of the game. He gave his password to another player/friend so that he can play for him. So this player is now playing under his own account and also on the other account of the friend who is already out of the game. Our question now is, is this allowed?
15 replies
Open
COTW (836 D)
25 Oct 13 UTC
Replacement player needed
Game just started, zero phases missed!

Please join as Quebec
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=127854
2 replies
Open
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