Sorry but that ship sailed the moment your NATO buddies recognized the unilateral secession of Kosovo. You set the precedent, now you face the consequences.

You have no evidence that this isn't driven by Crimeans, only Fox News. Do you really believe Crimeans are just peachy with having their language rights taken away, and thugs being bussed into Donetsk to abduct elected governors?

"I don't feel the analogy with Gibraltar: Gibraltar has been a part of the UK since 1713 and during the last Gibraltar referendum 99% of the valid votes casts rejected Spanish influence in its governing."

Gibraltar was supposed to be decolonized. UK weasaled out of it by granting a referendum. Referendum are not supposed to violate the territorial integrity of other states. Furthermore they have expanded beyond the initial territory gained by the Utrecht Treaty.

South Sudan happened after Kosovo. Scotland is happening right now, and that's after Kosovo. A new precedent has been set since Kosovo.

I can find websites from news organizations in every major country on the planet showing that those are Russian troops, if you want Putin. How come the Hungarians aren't protesting then? Or the Poles? Moldovans and Rumanians? They had their language rights taken away too, so why aren't they protesting to be incorporated into their mother countries? Personally, I don't think Crimeans are peachy about much these days. They're fleeing as fast as they can. The latest pro-Russian rally in Simferopol had what, 50 people?

You can't deny everything here Putin. What about the Nazi-esque markings on the doors of Tatars? What of the abuse of journalists? What of blockading the navy of another sovereign nation in their own home port? All of these are acts of Russian aggression.

And I made a point to list separate news sources for each of my critiques. You bash Fox News, fine. That's one hole in my chain. But try to attack me on the basis of sources and you'll soon be claiming that Russia Today is the only fair new source.

Oh wait, I might actually agree with you there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZolXrjGIBJs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55izx6rbCqg

"South Sudan happened after Kosovo."

South Sudan threatened a unilateral referendum anyway. That's a bad example for you. S. Sudan is also in a different neighborhood where they know that if they go it alone, nobody in Africa would recognize them. They didn't recognize the Biafrans, who had a much better case. They didn't recognize Eritrea until 1993, they certainly wouldn't recognized S. Sudan unilaterally.

"How come the Hungarians aren't protesting then? Or the Poles? Moldovans and Rumanians? "

Well I can tell you the Greeks have fled, so I guess it's not so wonderful there. Hungarians too. Hungary has declared its neutrality in the conflict, one of the few European countries to do so.

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2014/03/04/greeks-fleeing-ukraine/

"They had their language rights taken away too, so why aren't they protesting to be incorporated into their mother countries?"

Because they don't make up 33% of the population, nor do they have a historic claim to Crimea, as Russia does. Don't be silly.

"The latest pro-Russian rally in Simferopol had what, 50 people? "

I thought you just got done saying that there was no refugee crisis with the Crimeans and that the border was quiet, or was that someone else?

"What about the Nazi-esque markings on the doors of Tatars? What of the abuse of journalists?"

You glib and loose use of fascist imagery for Russia is really aggravating, considering your repeated pooh-poohing of the overtly fascist Praviy Sektor and Svoboda Party.

But I do enjoy how you and your friends show absolutely no concern for the Russian minority, but have to conjure up other minorities to invent abuse in order to justify obstructing Crimean self-determination. So, either the Crmieans are fleeing or they're putting "Nazi" signs on doors. And btw when did X's (which was the allegation) turn into Nazi signs? The main witness for this story could barely even make out the sign.

But I suppose we should be more worried about X's than armed thugs being hired from Kiev to attack people in the East.

"What of blockading the navy of another sovereign nation in their own home port?"

Those aren't Russian soldiers. They do not have Russian uniforms. How is it aggression if no attack has been made?

You've had a narrative of Russian aggression from the get-go, while you're an unapologetic apologist for the violent overthrow of the government.

BTW you're the same person who showed absolutely no concern about actual fascist signs being plastered all over Russian memorials.

What abuse of journalists? The so-called 'blockade' was conducted in full view of tons of journalists. Who is being abused? There can't be that much abuse if we're being inundated with non-stop propaganda on a daily basis, while there is a media blackout on what the authorities in Kiev are doing.

Putin is a fucking hypocrite.

Piece of shit rings his hands over the Falkland Islands, I REPEAT, The Falkland Islands, saying any referendum is invalid for these reasons.

200, I repeat 200 years ago, Argentina MIGHT, I repeat, MIGHT have had a prior claim to the islands based on some few dozen colonists on the Island. These Islanders MIGHT, I repeat, MIGHT have been kicked off the rock, although no one is sure if they left or stayed. 200 years pass and this hypocrite demands the Islands be returned to Argentina and a near 100%, I Repeat 100% referendum for staying a british territory is invalid.

Then this looney-toon piece of shit, looks at a situation where Russia invaded Crimea not even a week ago (after all of this shithead's hysterics about interventions in Syria where 100,000 people have died) Uses a ethnic majority caused by the forced removal of Tartars by Russia in the past to bank on the 60% Russian ethnic majority to secede the country, and then denies a fucking ethnic cleansing while hes at it. And finally, as I predicted from the beginning, has his pompoms out supporting the direct annexation of territory owned by a sovereign country.

How can he possibly be so far up his own ass that he thinks that he is anything but a Putin propaganda mouthpiece? How did this clown get anything resembling an advanced degree? He taught students? Good god, I think the state of Ohio owes some refunds.

Seriously, this is the last post I ever direct at this looney toon and I honestly hope his life continues to be as shitty as it obviously has been thus far.

I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.

Silenced.

Denied an ethnic cleansing, what? What the hell are you talking about? Another cowardly attack from the notoriously cowardly and abusive Santa. Can spout a bunch of lies but you can't handle the response. You cry and whine about poor Israel but support anti-semitic coups in Ukraine, all while supposedly crying about 'ethnic cleansing', as if that were ever your concern.

The guy who supports the nuking and collective racial punishment of Japan complaining about aggression. The main cheerleader of western attacks against Syria and colonial acquisitions by the British empire and every other western country invoking pompoms. Spare me.

"200, I repeat 200 years ago, Argentina MIGHT, I repeat, MIGHT have had a prior claim to the islands based on some few dozen colonists on the Island. These Islanders MIGHT, I repeat, MIGHT have been kicked off the rock, although no one is sure if they left or stayed. "

That's a gross distortion of my argument. But what else is new, Santa lies, distorts, abuses people, wishes them a shitty life, and then runs away the pathetic little coward that he is.

Russian aggression, I assume that protecting poor Russian Crimeans includes preparing to storm sovereign military bases in their own territory. At least the world is watching.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/07/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

" How did this clown get anything resembling an advanced degree? "

Because the sloppy garbage you routinely vomit on this forum is indicative of your work ethic and historical knowledge, right?

So are you fake muting me again? This crap has already been addressed. Keep spouting the NATO line, parrot. We all know you're an Obi-clone and think CNN is a legitimate news source on foreign policy.

Glad to see you give a damn about Praviy Sektor terrorists attacking eastern cities and abducting their leaders. Aggression indeed.

Putin, I wasn't referring to the paramilitary forces outside of the gates. I was referring to the fact that the Russian Navy scuttled a minesweeper in the main channel of the port, physically preventing the 2(?) Ukrainian ships in port from being able to leave.

And I said Nazi-esque, not in the sense that "oh they're Nazis" but in the sense that "Oh shit that's similar to how the Nazis marked the Jews and (less famously) how Stalin marked their residences previously"

As for the journalists, you must not have read the article on the para-military forces destroying recording equipment. Or telling foreign reporters to leave the nation. And there isn't an actual media blackout on what Kiev is doing. Its just that "RUSSIA IS DOING EVIL THINGS" has 1) Much more implications and 2) Much better headlines than "KIEV IS DOING EVIL THINGS". It sells better, so I've taken some of this bias into account in my searches on the subject.

And, I believe one of the many articles I posted mentioned around 650,000 refugees or something of the sort. But they're not fleeing violence by Ukrainians. Not in Crimea at least. They're fleeing the possibility of a war with Russia, and the safest place to be in a war with Russia is Russia.

From your article that you posted, the planes were

"filled with Greeks who fled Ukraine after the developments in Crimea."

Not in Kiev, but in Crimea. They mentioned lawlessness and rogue extremists, not a Fascist government seeking to persecute the masses, as you claim. What Ukraine needs is stability. Russian actions in Crimea are preventing that from happening. The war drills, ICBM tests (I know, they were planned well beforehand, but they still made things tense), moving of extra troops and equipment. All of this stokes fear in the population and ***Gives the extremists more power***. Russia is making the situation worse, not better.

As for the soldiers not being Russian, explain the exact replica of Russian uniforms, but with the unit patches removed. Explain the social media postings of Russian soldiers who post pictures of being in Crimea (when they're not supposed to be allowed off their bases). I won't take into account the claims that several soldiers admitted they were Russian, since they could have meant ethnicity.

So where is the UN in all of this?

"South Sudan was fighting a damn civil war against the rest of the nation, yet it still asked permission to leave and waited many years before the vote. It followed a process. It allowed the international community to step in and arbitrate. This has done none of that."
South Sudan's process: death, death, death, rape, death, ethnic cleansing, death, death, murder, death, murder, death, death, death, starvation, starvation, famine, starvation, death, famine, death, murder, ethnic cleansing, revenge killings, revenge killings, revenge killings, ethnic cleansing, starvation, death, death, death, war, death, death, death, death, death.

kaner406: Google and un.org exist. Here is the latest press release:
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=47304&Cr=ukraine&Cr1=

I was referring moreso to this, JECE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Sudanese_independence_referendum,_2011

The process took 7 years and included a census, elections, referendum, etc etc.

goldfinger0303: No dip you were referring to South Sudan's referendum. My point is that violence must be avoided at all costs. Emulating South Sudan is the antithesis of a successful resolution of the current Crimean/Ukrainian conflict.

I wasn't referring to the violence at all. Violence is not a prerequisite to the process that began in 2005

Hey goldfinger, are you going to admit you've been trying to sell us a pack of lies, yet?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2573923/Estonian-Foreign-Ministry-confirms-authenticity-leaked-phone-call-discussing-Kiev-snipers-shot-protesters-possibly-hired-Ukraines-new-leaders.html

Okay, the article says the foreign minister was told by someone that he heard from a doctor that the snipers were likely shooting at both the police and the protestors. Hardly concrete evidence. But I will admit that this is a plausible possibility, given the dirty history of many of the opposition politicians.

But several things work against this. If Yanukovych didn't order them, then why did he flee? Had he been arrested and tried in court for the murders, there would be no evidence possible to submit against him. (Actually, upon further thought, he had a host of other charges he would be found guilty of, so I'm just leaving this up just so you can see my thought process. I really wish we were allowed to do strikethroughs in our typing here).

Secondly, which opposition party would the order have come from? Surely not all of them would be complicit in this. If true, we will likely see a consolidation of power around that party in the next year or two, as they scheme their way up. So we'll have to see about that.

Third, how would a doctor be able to tell who started the shooting? From the wounds, you would be able to tell the caliber of the bullet and perhaps type of gun it was shot from. I would be very interested in knowing how she deduced this.

“There is now stronger and stronger understanding that behind the snipers, it was not Yanukovich, but it was somebody from the new coalition,” ---- Urmas Paet

Hardly concrete evidence indeed. And by "a doctor" you mean the main doctor for the Maidan mobile clinic, a person who was offered a position as Vice Premier for Humanitarian Affairs by the coup authorities. The Estonian FM also said that this evidence "already discredits from the beginning" the new authorities in Ukraine.

"Third, how would a doctor be able to tell who started the shooting? From the wounds, you would be able to tell the caliber of the bullet and perhaps type of gun it was shot from. I would be very interested in knowing how she deduced this."

Read the transcript

"So that she then also showed me some photos she said that as a medical doctor she can say that it is the same handwriting, the same type of bullets, and it’s really disturbing that now the new coalition, that they don’t want to investigate what exactly happened."

It doesn't really matter, the Social National/Svoboda and Fatherland party leaderships blur together, with the highest ranking security official in the new regime being the ex-founder of the Social National Party (now Svoboda) - Andriy Parubiy. The defense minister, Igor Tenyukh is also from the Svoboda Party. All the important security posts are run by the Neo-Nazis.

I'm not doubting the authenticity of the Estonian FM, Putin. Nor am I doubting the ability of the doctor to see that the wounds were made from the same gun. There's no link in the article you provided to the transcript, so let me outline my doubts. The main thing is - how do the bullets being the same caliber equate to the 3rd party snipers being hired by the coup officials? So, some questions to ask are - are they of a different caliber than government issued sniper rifles? If yes, that establishes that there were third party snipers who instigated it. Now, what was this handwriting that you mention? How is a doctor an expert on handwriting styles? How would she get her hands on this writing that would confirm that the shooters were hired by the opposition?

Putin, I'm not saying its not possible. I'm giving this more credence than you ever gave any of my points. I'm just asking questions instead of assuming everything is correct.

AS to your last point, I think you're being a bit too assuming there. They are three separate political parties for a reason. They'd have more power if they combined to form one party, so it doesn't make sense that the leadership blurs together and there are still separate parties. As far as I know, each party was granted several key positions in the new coalition government.