Forum
A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
Page 992 of 1419
FirstPreviousNextLast
TheMinisterOfWar (553 D)
21 Nov 12 UTC
Get my points off Facebook
Hey all, I've been playing FB Dip for some time (oldschool phpDiplomacy), but have lost interest. Since I'm starting from scratch again here, I was wondering whether it's possible to transfer my thousand odd points from FB Dip to here? It's not the same community, but it is the same platform. Possible or no?
34 replies
Open
ulytau (541 D)
22 Nov 12 UTC
What has Curiosity found on Mars? - A poll (definitely not a +1 scam)
It's common knowledge that this forum is home to some of the most intelligent lifeforms in the Milky Way. To harness this incredible brainpower for the good of mankind, we should use the power of crowdsourcing to predict groundbreaking events in advance, so as to buy people time to prepare for them. By utilizing the best social networking invention ever, the +1, we can accurately conclude which opinion prevails in the webDip community.
25 replies
Open
thatwasawkward (4690 D(B))
22 Nov 12 UTC
The Importance of Being Diplomatic
With all the chest-pounding that goes on around here about who's a better player than who, it seems clear that some people place far too much emphasis on what goes on on this site, to the point of tying their performance to their overall feelings of self-worth.
18 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
21 Nov 12 UTC
Rwanda: rogue state
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/11/20/that_other_war?page=0,0
This kind of behavior should be met with force, instead it is met with spineless words.

Draugnar (0 DX)
21 Nov 12 UTC
Of course we don't care. They don't have oil. We have organizations who care, but the US doesn't give a shit when things don't threaten their interests. Not saying that is right, just calling it how it is I'm afraid.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
21 Nov 12 UTC
They have some of the most important mineral reserves in the world, it's certainly not a resource issue. Especially since Palestine has no resources to speak of.

The issue isn't so much the world's lack of attention to Congo; it's to be expected. What is truly disgusting is the total lack of action from the UN and the international community. They are blatantly allowing this rebel takeover. They are trying to force Kabila to talk directly to the M23, but he has so far been refusing, saying Rwanda and Kagama are the 'real aggressors.'
Draugnar (0 DX)
21 Nov 12 UTC
Palestine may not have oil, but their Arab brothers have it coming out every hole they drill. Combine that with the JudeaoChristian-centric views of the West backing Israel and you get much more attention to that conflict.

But you would know more about the African conflicts than I woild and I applaud and respect you for.that.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
21 Nov 12 UTC
What's truly disgusting is the UN still having western democracies as members. I love Henry Kissinger's description of the UN: he thought it was convenient that diplomats from many nations had a meeting place to discuss stuff. I think that's what we should reduce its function to pronto.
Draugnar (0 DX)
21 Nov 12 UTC
And why wouldn't it have western democracies as members? It's building is located in one ofbthe aforementioned western democracies after all.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
21 Nov 12 UTC
Because Russia and China have vetoes in that place when it comes to really important matters. I don't see why mature democracies such as Holland or the United States should have to ask the dictators running these countries for their permission to solve our own problems. Or the French democratically chosen government for that matter. Why should they get the veto? Frankly, I consider a French neaux a badge of honor in most situations.
Draugnar (0 DX)
21 Nov 12 UTC
So your are a believer in governmentism - the belief that your government is right and better than others. OK. :-)
Draugnar (0 DX)
21 Nov 12 UTC
And the US doesn't let UN decisions stop them. We have done plenty of things without UN support or backing.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
21 Nov 12 UTC
No, but if we want China's opinion on something we can just ask them and try to put ourselves in their shoes to see how they feel. For the most relevant international problems, NATO amply suffices.
Invictus (240 D)
21 Nov 12 UTC
It won't be met with force because there is zero popular support for Americans, let alone Europeans, to die in the Heart of Africa in the middle of a brutal civil war. It also will not happen because Paul Kagame is still seen as an ideal African leader by many in the West. He's certainly accomplished a lot and has helped move his country away from its horrible past, but he's also well on his way to becoming the liberal internationalists' version of Robert Mugabe. By that I mean a leader who did good things at the start of his time in office but stayed too long and became corrupt.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
21 Nov 12 UTC
It's an interesting problem, redhouse. The higher level of government you are at, the less democratic it will be in relation to you as a citizen of the polity.

But at the same time you're just talking about changing the standards for what constitutes a legitimate government. Very cool. I just don't think it's realistic.

Don't get me wrong, it's an interesting concept - your government will only be recognized by the rest of the world and be afforded UN membership if you can prove popular support in your country and legal constitutional framework that enshrines democracy.

I wonder if the world will ever be like that. Today though, there are just too many powerful autocrats out there for it to work. They would just form their own pole and we would have some kind of cold war between autocrats and democrats, or pro- and anti-American, the nomenclature would be all over the map, but the cold war would be no less real.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
21 Nov 12 UTC
"It won't be met with force because there is zero popular support for Americans, let alone Europeans, to die in the Heart of Africa in the middle of a brutal civil war."

Yeah I know, thanks Invictus. Why do you always feel the need to explain what everyone already knows? We create political threads on this site usually to discussing justifications and ethics, and not to explain phenomena.

And yes Kagame and Mugabe have a lot in common in that way.

My idea is that Rwanda is become Africa's Israel - they have a brutal genocide in their history that we have on our collective consciences and so to make up for it we blindly support them as they engage in crimes against humanity and other illegal activities.

My real questions are about the minerals though. Rwanda supports M23 so as to gain more favorable access to those resources, I imagine, but why is the west supporting Rwanda in that? Where is their cut of the pie? Did they not already get enough from the pliant Congolese government? I mean Jesus, half the country's armed forces are in effect composed of MONUSCO troops.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
21 Nov 12 UTC
Which sounds great on paper until you realize that apparently preventing a city of 1,000,000 from falling into the hands of a lawless and illegal rebellion does not count as peacekeeping.

But harassing rebel positions in the mountains with helicopter gunships apparently does...
redhouse1938 (429 D)
21 Nov 12 UTC
Ow I definitely think that if China and Russia tell you not to do something, you should very seriously consider it and on some occasions even back down. I just don't see the use of this Cold War relic still being international law.

Anyways, I didn't want to derail your thready Thucy. I don't really have an opinion about Rwanda. I heard something about an African Union intervention in Mali (was it Mali?) recently that I found very encouraging. Perhaps we can assist some AU members in solving this problem.
Invictus (240 D)
21 Nov 12 UTC
Is non-opposition really support? It really could just be that the US State Department has its hands full with the Arab Spring and the pivot to Asia that there aren't enough resources to really deal with the issue in the Congo. And since intervention is self-evidently impossible, what pull does the outside world have anyway? The power of the West to influence African states with aid bribes is fast becoming irrelevant now that China can come in and has no problem giving truckloads of money without strings so long as Chinese state owned companies can get as much resources as possible. It's probably a combination of not really having the resources to try and solve the crisis and a realization that they may not even win if they tried.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
21 Nov 12 UTC
Yeah it was probably Mali. They are slowly moving toward a solution in Mali. This is because even though most outside northern Mali would like it better if that problem just went away, they don't have the luxury of just allowing northern Mali to continue to be a de facto Islamist secessionist state under shari'a law. "African Afghanistan" and so on. I mean hell even Romney mentioned Mali in the debates. Mali will get taken care of, but in the most cheapskating, ass-covering way possible. And the average people will get fucked over as usual.

Indeed, speaking of Mali: the international community and west Africa as well to some extent has dragged its feet on acting on Mali, mostly because everyone wanted someone else to bear responsibility for whatever operation would come of it. They are finally moving and say they'll intervene in 2013, but in the meantime they have given the rebels in northern Mali ample time to prepare for the invasion. They have RECRUITED CHILD SOLDIERS in the run-up, in order to defend their holdings. These child soldiers are not Tuaregs, but are regular northern Malians who have been enticed by a combination of their poverty and offers of good pay. And they are funding their operations with human trafficking and hostage-taking. So the child soldiers that die defending this bastard Islamist state in northern Mali are the ones who lose out because of the dawdling.

In the case of Congo the AU can't or won't do much. Firstly, because the UN is already there in force. Second, because no one has to troops to give. The AU is already engaged in Somalia and elsewhere in a meaningful degree. The best militaries in Africa have their hands full. Nigeria, west Africa's strongest military, is dealing with what amounts to a domestic insurgency for goodness sake.

There is limited impetus for a new mandate and more equipment for the UN mission, but I fear that if this started moving it would be used as a cover not to reinforce but to hamstring the UN in Congo.

The UN as ever is not a monolith. The peacekeepers and maybe even Secretary General Ban Ki-moon himself seem to want to end the rebellion and restore the central government to sovereignty, but many of the richest members of the UN seem not to. And they are certainly loath to offend Rwanda and Uganda.

Everyone has all but acknowledged the reality that Uganda and Rwanda are providing material assistance and advice to this rebellion and that they actually REPORT to the Rwandans. There is even extensive evidence of Rwanda troops crossing the border, even tanks. All of this is out there and acknowledged in UN reports. But Rwanda and Uganda deny it. Indeed Uganda is deployed in Somalia and has threatened to pull out in response.

The AU won't help because the AU is divided over Congo. This isn't, as it is further north in Africa, a case of "legitimate secular governments battling Islamist insurgency." This is a case of "corrupt African states battling for control of lucrative minerals trade" and "morally bankrupt Western 'statesmen' allowing the situation to spin desperately out of control for reasons inscrutable and incredible."
Thucydides (864 D(B))
21 Nov 12 UTC
Non-opposition is support yes, just as the failure to act is itself an action.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
21 Nov 12 UTC
And Rwanda and Uganda are key US allies in central Africa. So it's a bit facetious to say we don't support them.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
21 Nov 12 UTC
"The AU won't help because the AU is divided over Congo. This isn't, as it is further north in Africa, a case of "legitimate secular governments battling Islamist insurgency." This is a case of "corrupt African states battling for control of lucrative minerals trade" and "morally bankrupt Western 'statesmen' allowing the situation to spin desperately out of control for reasons inscrutable and incredible.""

-My first thought when I read that, but there's probably more sophisticated ones trampling over it when studying further, is to ask myself why the international community should reach a consensus about this matter if even the AU itself doesn't reach a consensus.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
21 Nov 12 UTC
The AU is a part of the international community...?
Putin33 (111 D)
21 Nov 12 UTC
The west eagerly intervened in Cote Divoire. Its not about lack of ability. Its about Rwanda being a friend.
Octavious (2701 D)
21 Nov 12 UTC
The thing about the Ivory Coast is that it has a coast. Easy to get to, easy to project power over if you're that way inclined. The thing about Rwanda is that it's miles away from anywhere and the logistics of interfering would be a nightmare.

Ability isn't the be all and end all, but it plays a huge part.
Invictus (240 D)
21 Nov 12 UTC
To be fair, France sending in some paratroopers to make one guy president is a much smaller task than, well, whatever Thucydides expects to be done in Eastern Congo. And only so many people can fit in that one building in Foggy Bottom. In an age of sparse resources State is likely focusing on the Middle East and East Asia rather than East Africa.
Putin33 (111 D)
22 Nov 12 UTC
Considering the priority Susan Rice has given to AFRICOM and her impending appointment to State, I doubt it.
Putin33 (111 D)
22 Nov 12 UTC
Uganda (Africom's ally in East Africa) is logistically easy enough to send 100+ troops there in order to chase Kony around central Africa, including the Congo. If they wanted this done, it'd be done. As it is, UN troops have engaged with M23 rebels around Goma.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
22 Nov 12 UTC
"And only so many people can fit in that one building in Foggy Bottom."

-United States, >40% of world military capacity
-World's largest economy
-Foreign policy limited by size of Harry Truman building
-Lol
Thucydides (864 D(B))
22 Nov 12 UTC
Putin I'm curious what your take on the rebellion and the response to it is.
what about Indonesian actions in Papua and West Papua? I'm curious on your take on the rebellion and response to it is Thucy? Where is the UN!!!!
Putin33 (111 D)
23 Nov 12 UTC
Ive long been angry at Rwandas destabilization of the Congo. Millions have been killed thanks to two invasions, now a third is underway. Kabila has done a great job resurrecting the DRC. Now this. I think the response has been ok, but the M23 has giant mortars and is well equipped. Gonna need more firepower.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
23 Nov 12 UTC
Indeed, where, Santa?

And +1 Putin
redhouse1938 (429 D)
23 Nov 12 UTC
"Gonna need more firepower."
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/186/553/1266784038597.jpg
angstpuppet (1035 D)
23 Nov 12 UTC
While I certainly oppose Rwanda's support of M23 and I have long since given up the hope that Rwanda would not involve themselves in this mess this is larger than a Rwanda and Congo problem. Many authors have described the previous conflict(s) in eastern Congo as Africa's World War. There were so many nations getting involved that the whole thing looked like it could end up setting half the continent on fire if it kept going at its old pace. Thucydides you are correct, Rwanda is absolutely the Israel of Africa, and the West and the UN caused it. France supported the Genocidaires/Hutu extremists during the Rwandan Genocide of 1994. America backed France's play by not stopping it and then provided more help to the displaced in Goma (a large number of them of the military and militia groups that perpetrated the Genocide, and the rest largely controlled by them) than it did in Rwanda. The war crimes trials were not held in Rwanda but in Arusha, in part as I recall due to the complete lack of infrastructure in Rwanda post 1994. Rwanda itself could barely hold trials for the grunt level Genocidaires and those that found ancillary ways to profit from the chaos and insanity due to a total societal collapse post Genocide, post Civil War, post refugee crisis.

With all this it is no surprise that Rwanda is doing this. It is, in effect, a Tutsi nation, demographics be damned. And this is just like the abused child growing up to be the abuser. Every time we (as a planet, as civilized nations, as the First World, etc.) don't fully step in to stop a Genocide we risk this happening.

Don't get me wrong, we need to stop this. We needed to stop it a decade ago. I am no apologist for Rwanda, far from it. No matter what my level of knowledge on Rwanda and the 1994 Genocide is I cannot condone them doing the same thing to others. It is horrific. But by the same token we created this mess as much as Rwanda itself did. We did not step up when we should have in the West. We want a less brutal world, but we are not willing to fight for it. We want a world where people are not destabilizing nations, and coming close to destabilizing continents or large swaths of them, but we have not the spine to step up. This is another chance for the West to show what it is made of. And I am sure again we will fail, falter, and half step.

Look no further than who sits on the US Holocaust Memorial sponsored committee designed to identify and stop genocides to see that we, as a nation don't take stopping genocide seriously. Former Secretaries Cohen and Albright co-chair that committee. Cohen was not Secretary of Defense during the Rwandan Genocide, and Albright was still US ambassador to the UN at that point, not Secretary of State, but both still had enough pull to do something. I have no idea what Cohen did or did not do then, but I do know what Albright did, not much. Since leaving office when not acting like they care about stopping genocide they like to take money from the Turkish government to deny the Armenian Genocide that occurred during World War 1. These people have zero reason to be on a committee about stopping genocide, though Albright should be called before one early and often as a case study in what not to do. Our priorities are absolutely backwards here in the US on this issue and they always have been.


32 replies
BornAgainGamer (100 D)
23 Nov 12 UTC
MOD Pause Request
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=103915
Could one of the wonderful moderators help out and pause this World game please - most have paused but with the holidays we have one or two stragglers. Thanks in Advance
3 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
20 Nov 12 UTC
Murderer of Marianne Vaatstra has probably been found by DNA match
http://www.nu.nl/binnenland/2962345/bevestigt-identiteit-verdachte-moord-vaatstra.html (translate.google.nl)
27 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
22 Nov 12 UTC
Looks like my wife will get to go home today!
The tube is out, she has had two liquid meals and is eating her first solid one now. If she handles her turkey and mashed potatoes then she can go home this afternoon.
32 replies
Open
hellalt (24 D)
21 Nov 12 UTC
new game with me
anyone from my old friends and enemies interested in a wta game?
24hrs/turn, low pot.
32 replies
Open
PeregrinTook (0 DX)
23 Nov 12 UTC
New Game
gameID=104807 WTA anon classic 48 hr phases. 31 point buy in. only 2 more spots open, starts in 19 hours
0 replies
Open
Mujus (1495 D(B))
21 Nov 12 UTC
In Honor of Thanksgiving Day
As a Mayflower descendant, I'm happy to post these two days' worth of thanksgiving verses from the New Living Translation: Old Testament today, and New Testament tomorrow. I wish you all a blessed Thanksgiving Day.
11 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
22 Nov 12 UTC
URGENT Mac
My Mac keeps telling me I have a problem with disk space. I only watch videos with this thing, streaming that is, and write documents for work. How the hell did it fill up 700 GO?!?
17 replies
Open
heroesandcons09 (100 D)
22 Nov 12 UTC
New game on thanksgiving
Just started a classic game for Thanksgiving turns are every 2 hours. Not anon just 5 to get in. gameID=104881 please join it'll be fun.
0 replies
Open
Gen. Lee (7588 D(B))
22 Nov 12 UTC
Couple of high pot gunboats
Shameless plug
1 reply
Open
zultar (4180 DMod(P))
21 Nov 12 UTC
Happy Thanksgiving and welcome our new mod, goldfinger0303
Hello folks,
Please welcome the newest addition to the mod team, goldfinger0303. I am thankful that he will be joining us.
25 replies
Open
smcbride1983 (517 D)
21 Nov 12 UTC
This will probably get me mocked.
Can we set up a donation system to allow for skilled players to enter higher stakes games earlier?
41 replies
Open
Invictus (240 D)
22 Nov 12 UTC
Way Too Early For Christmas, But This Is Awesome
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJP68GrLT38

O Little Town of Bethlehem set to the tune of House of the Rising Sun. Get it?
1 reply
Open
Zmaj (215 D(B))
21 Nov 12 UTC
EoG: 36 points
Well done, Nigee :D
5 replies
Open
Celticfox (100 D(B))
21 Nov 12 UTC
New Gunboat
So, as was mentioned in the Last Person to Post thread, my husband and I are looking to play a gunboat game together. Obviously there'd be no meta-gaming, but wanted you guys to be aware. So who's up... it would be relatively low stakes, WTA and no quicker then 24 hour phase.. can be longer phases if needed.

So any takers..
31 replies
Open
Sicarius (673 D)
21 Nov 12 UTC
Quick Question
Anyone know where I can find statistics on Iraq before the war and now (or recently)? looking for things like average wealth, access to services, crime, literacy, available food, infant mortality and birth defects, stuff like that
5 replies
Open
Sicarius (673 D)
17 Nov 12 UTC
The magic of democracy
A question of moral transmutation
67 replies
Open
johndonof (111 D)
21 Nov 12 UTC
live game
Join the live game that starts 4 minutes ancient med!
2 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
21 Nov 12 UTC
Today I had a bit of a situation
that will probably require the delicate intervention of COL NATHAN JESSUP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VADyRbzg2l4
8 replies
Open
mf8705 (100 D)
21 Nov 12 UTC
Didn't get a third build.
In the game http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=104456, I am South Africa. I should have gotten three builds this spring. I had it set up to do a Fleet in San (antarctica), a fleet in South Africa, and a army in Namibia. The two fleets were built correctly, but the army was not built. I had the options for all three and I am positive I had it set up right, but only two were built. Please fix this.
28 replies
Open
taos (281 D)
21 Nov 12 UTC
pm question
i received a pm with a link a few days ago,but because the pm column is now full with notifies about game phases and other stuff,the link went down and i can't find it.
how can i get the link now?
anyway if the answer is "no way" ,does someone have the link for the webdip site alberto was advertising?
4 replies
Open
Celticfox (100 D(B))
15 Nov 12 UTC
SWTOR
Anyone else going to try the free to play version of this MMO?
54 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
13 Nov 12 UTC
"A Hundred Thousand Games", EoG thread
"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it."
-George Orwell
39 replies
Open
Mapu (362 D)
17 Nov 12 UTC
Diplohaulics Anonymous Mini Tournament
Details inside.
28 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
20 Nov 12 UTC
Oh Sweden, where will it stop?
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/11/14/world/europe/swedish-school-de-emphasizes-gender-lines.xml
28 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
20 Nov 12 UTC
You Made Me Do This EOG
21 replies
Open
Frank (100 D)
21 Nov 12 UTC
D3 player with 138 points in 36 minutes
Discuss. http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8658462/jack-taylor-grinnell-drops-138-points-collegiate-scoring-record
Also, youtube some highlights of this team, they just constantly fullcourt press and jack threes.
0 replies
Open
Page 992 of 1419
FirstPreviousNextLast
Back to top