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Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
08 Sep 11 UTC
Infrastructure Bank
Is this anything more than a jobs bill for expensive unionize labor just like the original stimulus bill was a jobs bill for unionized state employees? If you don't work in a union or you own a business that doesn't employ union labor do you exist in Obama's economic world view?
10 replies
Open
Yonni (136 D(S))
07 Sep 11 UTC
Starting a new game
I'm down to one game so I'm looking to start a few new ones.
Here is one. 2 D/move, wta, anon. 40 D.
gameID=67372
3 replies
Open
ulytau (541 D)
08 Sep 11 UTC
Is there a useless territory in Classic Diplomacy?
I dare to say there isn't. Reasoning follows.
ulytau (541 D)
08 Sep 11 UTC
From the usual suspects of Syria, Clyde, North Africa and Barents Sea, Syria sees the least gameplay in my games so that should work as a condition for choosing the weakest among the weak. I disregard places whose removal would affect the geography of the map beyond the fact that the territory is gone, otherwise I would probably pick the northern coast of Bulgaria as the absolute pushover.

What would be the result of removing Syria? Well, the place is vital part of the success of Lepanto, offering either a safe place to convoy to or at least a chance for a right guess if there's a fleet in Smyrna. If it was gone, tacit support from Austria is not enough, there simply must be an Austrian fleet in Aegean for Lepanto to succeed smoothly. This makes the execution of Lepanto more difficult. If it turned out Lepanto is really significantly less successful with Syria gone, attacking Austria from turn 1 would be more appealing option for Italian opening. The resulting shift in the metagame would be quite significant in my opinion so that's why I think there's no useless territory in Diplomacy.

Thoughts? Insults? Counterexamples?
centurion1 (1478 D)
08 Sep 11 UTC
every single territory serves its purpose as you say not much more to say beyond that.
SacredDigits (102 D)
08 Sep 11 UTC
I find Tuscany to be largely without merit. I understand that it exists to slow Italy down from going at France, but it's still just...for all intents and purposes, Piedmont and Rome are the way to go. I find North Africa essential to a few stalemate lines/pushes from Med to Atlantic and vice versa. Clyde makes it so that Edinburgh doesn't border NAO, and that's to me more key both positive and negative to England than Tuscany is for Italy. And Barents is essential if England is going Russia-hunting. It's how you can get four force on StP from north of the stalemate line while Russia can only defend with three force.
santosh (335 D)
08 Sep 11 UTC
Indeed. Some territories are important because they keep two important territories apart. The Helig keep Kiel away from the North Sea, in the absence of which life as Germany would have been miserable. Clyde keeps Edinburgh away from NAO and Liverpool away from the Norwegian. Syria, I'm not really sure. Aside from the Lepanto. But I'm tempted to think it's the other way around. the Lepanto happens because Syria is present. Syria's existence makes an Austrian land campaign against Turkey easier, because he can now push two units into Armenia and Syria, and so force the matter in Constantinople instead of it being a matter of probability. There is an interesting variant on vdip where there are two territories instead of Venice, thus separating Trieste and Venice from each other by a buffer in the middle, again, in my opinion, serving the same purpose.
ulytau (541 D)
08 Sep 11 UTC
Yeah, those would be my reasons for said territories as well, SD. Clyde also makes convoyed army in Liverpool much more versatile.

Tuscany is useful in bypassing army in Piedmont when pushing from the West, I have seen few witty convoys using it a starting point for invasion of Italy. It also borders 5 other territories so it allows creates some leverage on its surroundings. But definitely a weak spot as well, thanks for pointing it out.
Rommeltastic (1121 D(B))
08 Sep 11 UTC
Switzerland is thoroughly useless. I've checked nearly all the games on this site, and none of them have EVER entered that territory.
jpgredsox (104 D)
08 Sep 11 UTC
I would agree with the person who said the Lepanto exists because of Syria, not the other way around. Before the Lepanto was thought up of, I cannot imagine how a unit would ever get to Syria.
ulytau (541 D)
08 Sep 11 UTC
Rommel, that must be some adjusication problem... wait, there's no abbreviation written on it! Maybe it's an Easter Egg that is only passable once you perform some dark ritual. I'm tempted to say that it's a feature, not a bug!

Regarding Syria->Lepanto, I agree with that order of consequences. I took the present state as the starting point so that's why I went Lepanto->Syria but of course it was originally the other way round.
Sargmacher (0 DX)
08 Sep 11 UTC
You guys haven't unlocked Switzerland yet?
SacredDigits (102 D)
08 Sep 11 UTC
I push armies into Syria sometimes as Russia. It's a way to get more leverage on Ank.
TBroadley (178 D)
08 Sep 11 UTC
I believe that super-duper-platinum donors can move into Switzerland... this week for only $9.95!
ulytau (541 D)
08 Sep 11 UTC
Is there a premium for moving fleets there?
Sargmacher (0 DX)
08 Sep 11 UTC
I can't wait for the new chinook unit coming out in next month's update.
will it be like the civ 2 helicopter tat can move on both water and land?
santosh (335 D)
08 Sep 11 UTC
One does not simply walk into Switzerland!

There is an algorithm to be followed. It proceeds as follows.

First, put yourself on a dark desert highway. (That would be North Africa)
Cool Wind in your hair. Warm smell of colitas, rising up through the air (Get high) When you have done this, you will find that your head grows heavy and your sight grows dim, and you have to stop for the night (Fall) And then if you think to yourself
"This could be heaven or this could be hell", you know you're there. Remember however, you can check out any time you like of Switzerland, but you can never leave.
Sargmacher (0 DX)
08 Sep 11 UTC
I hope so. The more realistic the better.
ulytau (541 D)
08 Sep 11 UTC
Damn, I hoped next month would bring us Polish Archangel Hussars, not some stupid out-of-the-timeline techie gadget.
Diplomat33 (243 D(B))
09 Sep 11 UTC
To go into Switzerland you have to be a Swiss citizen, obviously. :) Or have a valid passport and get permission from their government.
ulytau (541 D)
09 Sep 11 UTC
Actually, us Euros can simply into Switzerland since they are part of the Schengen Area. Murikka pwned once again.
Hugo_Stiglitz (100 D)
09 Sep 11 UTC
I dunno, I feel like Iceland, Crete, Sardina, Sicily and Ireland are severly under-utilized.
Sargmacher (0 DX)
09 Sep 11 UTC
I always feel that having Iceland is a great morale boost to me in a game.
Hugo_Stiglitz (100 D)
09 Sep 11 UTC
Naturally; Reykjavik is a beautiful city that is always kind to soldiers on leave. But I find it strategically insignificant
ulytau (541 D)
09 Sep 11 UTC
But at least you can OWN Iceland. I hate Sardinia and Crete for their everlasting neutrality. So beautiful, yet so neutral...
North Africa? Tuscany? There are some FUN convoys you can do in the West Med with those territories, although the threat of them is usually more potent than the execution.

First of all, Tuscany and Spain are separated by one sea province, that being Gulf of Lyon. If you've got an army in Spain and a fleet in GoL, you can convoy between them. Usually more useful for France than Italy. Without Tuscany, you would either only be able to convoy to Piedmont, or you'd be able to convoy all the way to Rome. In fact, you'd be able to convoy between Rome and Marseilles.

As for North Africa, the simple fact that it forms part of the Gibraltar strait makes it one of the MOST important spaces on the board. Wanna break out into the Atlantic? You've got three choices: Spain(sc), West Med, or North Africa. Plus, if it weren't there, Italy would be threatening MAO by taking Tunis.

As for convoying from North Africa, a fleet in MAO and NAO gets you to Liverpool. With an Italian Army and two French fleets, you can do this in 1902. I call this opening an Atlanto.

Although you'd probably have a better shot at Clyde than Liverpool.
Hugo_Stiglitz (100 D)
09 Sep 11 UTC
@AWB

The Atlanto; I love it
I've tried to run it a few times. Good news is, it easily aborts to a standard Lepanto. Bad news is, England can ruin your plans by guessing right.
G1 (92 D)
09 Sep 11 UTC
Just a reference to the whole Syria-Lepanto thing, quite apart from the Lepanto, Syria gives a retreat option from Smyrna. Otherwise that territory has no non-SC retreats, and if you're in a bad enough spot to lose Smyrna, Chances are your forces are pretty concentrated and you won't be able to just hop over into Constantinople. That or you've already lost Constantinople. Then again, Syria could already be occupied as well, but that's the case with any other retreat option. That's my justification for a lot of territories: they exist, if for no other reason, to provide more chances for retreats rather than disbands, which can be crippling in terms of defense. If you lose Smyrna or Edinburgh in the spring, the existence of a retreat option might make the difference towards regaining it in the fall. Thoughts?
Syria stays yellow in most of my games. When it changes, it's usually to green. It occasionally turns purple.
Hugo_Stiglitz (100 D)
09 Sep 11 UTC
I think pink is my favorite color for Syria
All four spaces have limited convoy usage and little else.
^I've seen pink syria before actually. I believe everything was pink, minus crete and sardinia.
King Atom (100 D)
09 Sep 11 UTC
"I dunno, I feel like Iceland, Crete, Sardina, Sicily and Ireland are severly under-utilized."

http://www.diplom.org/Online/variants/7-island.html
Is there a variant that enables swiss, but does not give it a supply centre? Because that would be a very interesting variant, as there would be a lack of stalemate lines.
@dD ShockTrooper: Abstraction.
Hugo_Stiglitz (100 D)
09 Sep 11 UTC
@Shock Troop

I acutally have convoyed an army from Clyde to Syria in a FtF game (along with help from Italy). We called it the Lawrence of Arabia
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
09 Sep 11 UTC
I wonder if anyone has stats on what space on the board is least occupied by counters and what space if most occupied.
Yonni (136 D(S))
09 Sep 11 UTC
I was just wondering that.
NA would have to be up there. As would Syria. How about a territory like Livonia? It seems fairly unused.
Hugo_Stiglitz (100 D)
09 Sep 11 UTC
I'd reckon that NtS would be the most. Someone almost always has it parked
SacredDigits (102 D)
09 Sep 11 UTC
There were a few territories I painted red for fun at the end here, but neither Livonia nor Syria were among them. Syria was harboring a Turkish fleet that I wanted disbanded, and Livonia gave me pressure on StP (although I'd never have taken it in a million years).

gameID=45852

I think Munich has to be up there on most occupied. Syria and Heligoland Bight have to be in the least occupied conversation, probably not North Africa because it's key to sealing the Med.
Hugo_Stiglitz (100 D)
09 Sep 11 UTC
I'm a big fan of the utter chaos that France is in in the above game. Paris is completely surrounded and his few territoires are mostly scattered around the map.
Poor Frenchy....
SacredDigits (102 D)
09 Sep 11 UTC
LOL. At the end, I told him I'd end his suffering with a little dignity if he walked me into a few English SC's. Since England was all on top of him and I could obviously take Naples and Tunis at will, he agreed to it.
Hugo_Stiglitz (100 D)
09 Sep 11 UTC
Not surprisingly, France would've faired about as well in an actual war
SacredDigits (102 D)
09 Sep 11 UTC
There was very nearly a huge embarrassment at the end, since I forgot to move Tyrolia to Munich. Burgundy to Munich, while an unlikely move, would have made it last another year and pissed me off for being dumb.


43 replies
undercover (919 D)
08 Sep 11 UTC
Mind the gap!
Does anyone else get the urge to fill in the holes in your territory? You know those islands of alien colour spoiling your empire. How far will you go - divert an army a move? Two moves?

My megalomania has no room for anyone else, it's the itch I have to scratch.
17 replies
Open
otter (212 D)
09 Sep 11 UTC
It's a Packer thing
'nough said
0 replies
Open
jpgredsox (104 D)
08 Sep 11 UTC
Turkey, Spring 1901
I was wondering what the forum's consensus is on the movement of the smyrna army. Should it go to armenia or constantinople?
5 replies
Open
Dunecat (5899 D)
07 Sep 11 UTC
How much sex is too much sex?
When should I lay off of the sex? Should I slow down when the women lose their individual robotic identities and combine forces to become the Megazord, or is that, instead, the perfect time to finally bang that hag Rita?
40 replies
Open
HonkyTonk (101 D)
08 Sep 11 UTC
disbanding
in the autumn retreats stage:

if i have (for example) 7 supply centres and 7 units and i choose to disband a unit instead of retreat, will i be able to immediately (in the next stage) place it back in one of my home supply centres?
4 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (873 D)
07 Sep 11 UTC
"Open" Games
Apologies if this has been answered before, but:
9 replies
Open
Rommeltastic (1121 D(B))
08 Sep 11 UTC
Money theft
So this is a dilemma about petty theft from someone who I know personally...
54 replies
Open
Dunecat (5899 D)
08 Sep 11 UTC
ISPs suck the big one
How happy are you with your ISP? My ISP, TimeWarner Cable, maxes out at 15 Mbps where I live in a major US city. What the fuck is that?
2 replies
Open
semck83 (229 D(B))
08 Sep 11 UTC
If one conspiracy theory were true, which would it be?
TC's thread gave me an idea. OK, I'm not asking for either critique or serious support of any conspiracy theories....
42 replies
Open
DILK (1539 D)
08 Sep 11 UTC
Recently Cancelled Game
Seriously. How weak was that game
1 reply
Open
Fwum (189 D)
08 Sep 11 UTC
Forcing a draw
Is currently in a gunboat game (http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=65576) where the west has formed a perfect stalemate line against Turkey. However, he/she won't vote for a draw, resulting in a very prolonged game without any end. As there won't be a winner, is there a way to for example a mod to force a draw and end the game so we won't have to fill in the same orders over and over again?
9 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
07 Sep 11 UTC
Where do you get your news?
I'm interested to know where people get the information that governs their lives.
29 replies
Open
Diplomat33 (243 D(B))
07 Sep 11 UTC
How to join the Order of Freemasonry
Hey, i am wondering if there are any Masons playing web diplomacy who can tell me how to join. I am interested, but have no idea how. Any real instructions would be most welcome.
36 replies
Open
Ben Dewey (205 D)
05 Sep 11 UTC
Religion Vs. Atheism
I intend this forum to be used for civil debates between people who believe in religion and people who do not (atheists). When posting, please state your religion if you believe in one.
323 replies
Open
dD_ShockTrooper (1199 D)
08 Sep 11 UTC
Can anyone defend evolution?
Can anyone defend the idea that a "species" that diminishes its relations to another species in exchange for increased evolutionary imposition of genetic variation among lifeforms can produce life as we know it?
1 reply
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
01 Sep 11 UTC
Could this happen?
Could a woman walk down the street in Mecca in a bikini?
If this couldn't happen something is wrong with the people and society in Mecca.
210 replies
Open
King Atom (100 D)
06 Sep 11 UTC
Calling The Loved...
...and the Hated. Yes, all members of gameID=65584 should report here. Those of you who would like to start another game let me know, I do not expect any other than me, but I will still try. Regardless, I would like to start a seperate game similar to the one before, but I would like to add some rules...
41 replies
Open
Dys Claimer (116 D)
08 Sep 11 UTC
FtFDiplomacy on Twitter
If you've ever wondered what goes on a a FTF Diplomacy tournament.... Live Tweeting from Chicago this weekend. What could go wrong?

Follow the feed on Twitter at @FtFDiplomacy
1 reply
Open
Sargmacher (0 DX)
07 Sep 11 UTC
Valedictions
Regards, Kind regards, Best Regards, Best wishes, All my best or, simply, Best?

Which do you use and why?
32 replies
Open
dD_ShockTrooper (1199 D)
07 Sep 11 UTC
Could this happen?
Could Tettleton provide a reasonable argument?
If this couldn't happen something is wrong with his brain and its function.
6 replies
Open
hardy (221 D)
06 Sep 11 UTC
Metal Pieces
So me and my friends started another Diplomacy playing binge after a 2-3 year hiatus.. I bought the game, for the old board game we had, well our friend moved to Calgary...
6 replies
Open
Bob Genghiskhan (1238 D)
07 Sep 11 UTC
So, any news on the Masters game that got cancelled a couple of times?
Just curious what's happening.
0 replies
Open
Chas Diamond (316 D)
06 Sep 11 UTC
How to quit?
How do you quite from a game? I can't work it out...
26 replies
Open
zultar (4180 DMod(P))
06 Sep 11 UTC
New game for you physics nerds.
I have only one game at the moment and would like to continue my Newton's 3rd law series. Please join me:
gameID=67295
6 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
06 Sep 11 UTC
What do You Think of This?
I was given the following reply for why someone was attacking me in a game. META-Gaming?
15 replies
Open
Invictus (240 D)
07 Sep 11 UTC
Broken Keyboard Buttons
After cleaning my keyboard a bit too rigorously, my backspace and enter keys have stopped working. It's not too big a deal since I'm likely to get a new laptop for Christmas, but for the short term it's aggravating. How can I change some settings so that, say, my extra shift is a new enter?
22 replies
Open
Diplomat33 (243 D(B))
06 Sep 11 UTC
Weakest Nations
I have heard various comments on what the weakest nation is, both in regular and ancient Mediterranean maps. i want to know what the community thinks.
23 replies
Open
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