@Crazy Anglican, I bitch about somebody forcing me to take a day off, instead of offering it to me. I would much rather take those 9 days throughout the year and spend it according to my liking, as I suppose many other people. But no, the catholic regime won't let us.
As for the economic side - it would have been worth to stay open if he hadn't been forced to pay us double salary during the holidays. I don't mind working for the regular salary, but that would be (and was) illegal.
And as for the GDP, because the former wasn't really connected to that, a legal day off means almost absolute halt in manufacturing for the whole day, not to mention the costs that other branches of industry have to pay.
And now that I wrote that I see that phil_a_s made my point for me.
All in all, you think it's ok because you're christian, but imagine if someone told you you cannot work during e.g. Pasech, just like that.

You'd think everyone would take a holiday on Purim.

Nah, Yom Kipur bro. Plus it's in the summer

*Kippur

Yom Kippur is a more spiritually important day to be sure.

I bet you could get more Christians behind a festival with lots of food and alcohol rather than fasting and introspection.

Definitely :D And what is wrong with that? If I lived in Israel, and they had all Jewish holidays, I would be fine with that. Make it your own. Do you get zero other vacation days?

KingCyrus, here in the Czech Republic, it's a time-honored tradition. Sort of like dumping water on women is in Poland. We have something similar in theory, except girls dump water on guys. Okay, it's not sticks, it's wicker rods, but that just makes it worse, I think. They're bendy, unlike sticks.

That is.... interesting. Never heard of that. We certainly don't have that sort of thing in the good ole US of A. (at least not where I live)

Yeah, we have both of those. Traditionally boys poured water on girls, hence the name that translates to "Poured Monday", and then girls would hit boys with rods. However, in a modern day that's just a bunch of kids fighting with water guns (with no sex division), and then some old guys that make some doomsday device for water balloons or whatnot. It's fun. The only thing nice about those holidays is that because pagan beliefs where deeply rooted in our culture even centuries after Poland was christened most of the celebrations take much from pagan holidays. For example I have no idea what a good catholic could possibly do to celebrate Pentecost (despite being raised as catholic), but there are many traditions connected with Green Week (Slavic fertility holiday), which is celebrated on the same day.

@ yassem

Okay, I'm confused. Is it just the religious holidays you object to being told you have to take off? It sounds as if there are no holidays in Poland that aren't church related. Is that the case?

There are some - the Independence Day and Constitution Day (as a part of a 3 day "May-holidays"). But you see, I don't see a problem with the state issuing those days off, as they are secular and concerns 100% of people living in Poland. Even if we assume that 90% of Polish people are churchgoing, good and traditional Catholics (which is more like 20% in reality) it's still forcing their delusion on the other 10%. And on that I think this thread of this thread can continue in http://webdiplomacy.net/forum.php?viewthread=1247024#1247024 (I don't know how to link threads : <)

Yassem, it really seems most of your argument revolves around not having the option to work on a certain day. Yet, you are perfectly fine with civil (non-religiously based) holidays. This basically goes against your entire argument so far, ie I should be able to work when I want.

@yassem

"All in all, you think it's ok because you're christian, but imagine if someone told you you cannot work during e.g. Pasech, just like that."

Funny that you should mention that, since that's exactly my situation right now (and I like it by the way). I'm out all this week, I couldn't go into work if I wanted to. If somebody invited me to a Sadir supper I'd happily accept. I don't get worked up about other people's religions and philosophies so long as they aren't diametrically opposed to mine.

For instance I went to a Zen Buddhist meditation center once and they asked me to make a donation (which I happily did), but they said the proper way was to place the money in my hands (as if praying) and drop it in front of the Buddha. For me at the time that fell under graven images, so I apologized and gave the money directly to a monk instead. They were cool about it. I was there to learn about their way of life, not necessarily embrace it.

Also, how is it not forcing delusions on others to have them participate in Pagan traditions but disallowing Christian ones? Paganism is a religion (and a pretty significant one in my part of the world) with hundreds of thousands of practitioners. Including these traditions in your holidays is not a-religious. It's religious.

CA, something is only religious when done for religious reasons. I know exactly 0 people who are actually pagan, yet I know plenty of people who take part in what are effectively pagan rituals. That makes it a more cultural or traditional activity, at least here. I imagine that where you are, the situation is different, but I doubt that either here or in Poland it is for religious reasons that people do those things.

I'm still actually opposed to pagan rituals, by the way. Beating women with sticks to make them pop out babies is hardly my idea of fun, even if it isn't for religious reasons but only because we haven't gotten around to not doing it anymore.

Glad to hear you're fine with being affected by religious holidays, even if you don't honor them yourself, but some of us don't like it much. Perhaps I oppose it because I have something of a history with being forced to take part in religious rituals and activities despite fierce personal opposition (I am philosophically opposed to the idea of God, whom an authority repeatedly attempted to pressure me into honoring), and as a result, anything that reminds me of it is tainted a bit.

KingCyrus, well, this is sort of a thread about religious holidays being officially endorsed by the state. FWIW I'm not sold on civic holidays, particularly when they veer into nationalism, which is just as exclusionary as religion can sometimes be.

@ phil_a_s

Thanks, that's basically what I was digging for, I can respect your idea of not having any holidays set aside for government or religion (if that was were you were going on that), but I'd prefer the calendar that gives us more holidays in most respects. It seems to me though that your distaste for religion may have more to do with the authority figure than the religion. In much the same way, I have hated some very good books because I was forced to read them in school. When I went back to read them on my own terms, I liked them (still, others not so much).

Still, if you sweep away religious holidays. Eliminating the protection of days off under the law for things like Christmas gives your boss the right to say, "No, I need you work the 25th". It is still forcing your preference on someone else. To my way of thinking giving somebody a day off with pay, is less intrusive than removing the legal right to have a day off with pay. That would be even if the day is chosen for religious or civic reasons. Where I live, Christmas and Easter are just another work day for many people. They get paid extra for working on them, but they aren't necessarily guaranteed time with their families for them. The people that get shafted the most are the ones with lower income service jobs. We really don't need McDonalds or Waffle House to be open on Christmas day, but still they are. The reason for this? Extra money in the pockets of rich guys who run franchises. Capitalism can run amok just as easily as religion, communism, or anything else.

Yeah, I understand that completely. The only thing worse than forcing people to have a day off at a specific time is preventing them from having it at a crucial time.

And yeah, I did very much dislike the authority figure, but for me it represents what happens when religion and power step into a close relationship.

It isn't as if government officials are saying take the day off AND make sure you participate in religious observances, is it? The people who are participating in religious observances are doing it (without regard to parental authority) of their own free will, right?

If they are out their having fun the way that they choose to, why should they hide it? The OP was griping about religious programs on the radio & television. (To my knowledge) most of those aren't government owned in Poland. Thus program directors are making choices about what to play based on their estimation of what they think the most people would like to hear/see. I presume if ratings go down, they'll change the programming to attract more viewers/listeners.

Well, yeah, but it's still a mandatory day off, and it's still effectively for religious reasons (okay, admittedly, easter and christmas are both secularized to the level that my family actually used to celebrate both, though areligiously), and that makes it something of a pain. It's not a big deal for me.

As for the media being full of religion, that definitely applies here in the Czech Republic, even in the state-owned media. On a fairly important state radio station, they just had several back-to-back programs about religion. This happens every time there is a vaguely religious event. I don't know about TV, but I assume one or two religious programs will appear there as well.

Don't get me wrong, I completely understand and the resentment of someone trying to force you to do something you don't like. As a Christian, I'll get more upset by abuses of Christians than pretty much anything else, basically because it makes the religion look bad, and accepting Christianity has to be a choice. My point was that its (the abuse of) power in service of any ideology that sucks.

Anyway, it sounds like we agree on some level. Since I'm neither a citizen of the Czech Republic nor Poland, my opinions don't amount to anything on the subject. :-)

Oh yes, certainly. That's part of my point about nationalism. I live in a rather secularized country now, with an active, but minority Christian community (split into Protestant and Catholic), and they constitute an important part of the intellectual elite. I don't recall any recent discrimination on religious grounds actually happening, or anything like that. The community is open, respectful, and not even all that socially conservative. On the other hand, we have a ridiculous level of nationalism, where everything that is not Czech is bad. Germans (they invaded us), Russians (they invaded us), Americans (I was brought up during communism and continue to believe the propaganda), "Europeans" (the EU is a fundamental evil), immigrants from poorer countries (they're here to take our jobs), immigrants from other continents (they look odd, and I think he'll explode himself), immigrants from richer countries (they're not Czech), and anyone who we decide is not Czech (for example the Roma, or the Jews) are all automatically horrible people. I am half-Czech, and viewed with suspicion. Anyone who doesn't look Czech (I have a friend who was born in the Czech Republic and hasn't ever left the country for over a week, but he isn't Czech because he's black), or doesn't act Czech (whatever that means) is wrong. Czech isn't even defined, because that wouldn't let us hate whoever we want to. I have observed the effects extreme nationalistic education has, and it seems about as bad as ultra-religious education.

Well, seems like despite it's proximity and linguistic similarities the Czech nation is much more progressive as the Catholic community is extremely active but in a very "bad" (at least from my point of view) way. The church is very often involved in politics - for example all elections take place on Sunday and priests very often use that opportunity to express their support for the conservative party. Furthermore, the Episcopal Conference in Poland recently took measures to stop imposing gender-equality and anti-domestic violence policies, condemning them as "counter-traditional".
As for the non-religious holidays - I am still opposed to that. But you see, while they also are a waste of time and resources, because they are not religious (i.e. concerning only a part of population) there's no argument about discrimination, everyone working in Poland is concerned by Polish holidays.
As for the pagan traditions: funny thing, I actually know a guy that claims to be a follower of Svetovid kult, but I honestly believe it's just taking being a hipster to a whole new level. The truth is, as phil_a_s said, those traditions have nothing to with religion, and for one thing I view them much more as reminders of our Slavic culture, which was and is pretty awesome.
Just to be clear, I am not opposed to religion. If believing in something supernatural, be it christian God, Shiva, Zodiac signs or ghosts, makes your life easier or better in some way that's fine by me. What makes me white-rage angry is when people take their personal believes and try to affect other people's life.

As an aside, Prague is a beautiful yet gritty city. My second favorite in Europe (sorry, but Vienna has it beat). I only got to spend 2 days there in 2013, but they were worth every minute. There is even a small office building with a large "Kuta" name on it near the west side of the city IIRC. I have pics to prove it! ;)

yassem, yeah, we're a lot more secular. Like, 40% of people even believe at all, of which 30% are catholic, and thus organized.

Jeff, incredibly gritty in places, definitely. Glad you liked it.