nuke em all, that'll solve all of our problems

Randomizer - are you referring to lying Politicians?

...or are you referrign to the fucktard moron voters that keep putting the lying poiticians back into office?

ISIS are so extreme even Al Qaeda have disavowed them.

And Obama is basically disavowing their existence through his usual state of cowardly inaction.

Actually he is more being willfully ignorant.

Whatever...my brother server in Iraq, and he watched good men die. Whether or not you agree with the war in Iraq, the one thing we should all be able to agree on is that Obama, through his inaction, by allowing Iraq to fall into chaos without a word, is dishonoring the memories and sacrifices of many brave Americans, and British...and Polish and Iraqi...and, name your ally...he is dishonoring all the dead, and pissing on their graves. Fuck Obama.

All of the above seems to apply.

Obama is just like all the cowardly politicians going back to Ronald "Cut and Run" Reagan in that he's willing to use air strikes and not commit to ground troops to make sure the problem is eliminated. He wants to keep the US body count down and forget allies, civilians, and saving the country from going over to a terrorist group. He will strike a deal with Iran as long as the oil will still flow.

Blame that unwillingness to commit ground troops on the people. Ever since Vietnam, every single death results in an outcry from the populace. People don't understand the meaning of sacrifice anymore. Add to it that the current breed of "I just signed up to get my tuition paid for by the gubernment" soldiers have know concept of "duty, honor, and courage (SEALs, Marines, Rangers: they understand this concept, but many of the typical soldiers don't anymore). All of the Commander in Cheif's for the last 30 years have had to deal with the threat of yet another Vietnam. I give huge props to George HW Bush for going in, kicking ass in Kuwait, and getting out. He wasn't afraid to get his hands dirty and recognized that the first rule of war is young men die.

have *no* concept... Low blood sugar. Must go eat food.

Draug - Amen. Anyone with G-parents that lived through World War II can tell you about sacrifice. Families that actually literally* gave up their personal comforts to contribute to the war effort, honored the sacrifice of soldiers, supports sacrifice in the name of freedom for others other than ourselves.

Of course, these days, we look at out piece of shit European "allies" and they hardly even acknowledge the American blood spilled for their freedom. Disrespectful pieces of shit, all of them. Of course, let their precious freedom be endangered, or their precious flow of oil, and those same European pos's will be whining and complaining that the US isn't doing enough.

Too much comfort in the world....too many pieces of shit sticking their hand out and having it filled with government hand-outs, with an expectation that they will have everything they want as soon as they god-damned demand it...no wonder nobody understands sacrifice anymore -- Libtards only live by the RECEIVE WHAT THOU DEMAND without work, effort or sacrifice.

krellin, what would you like Obama to do? Regime change the incompetent and unpopular Iraqi government we regime changed Saddam Hussein with?

The urge to "DO SOMETHING!!!!" without a clear objective or plan is how this whole mess got started. I think America has done enough, and I'd bet the Iraqis agree.

Are all ex-marines that stuck up their own arse?

"soldiers have know concept of "duty, honor, and courage (SEALs, Marines, Rangers: they understand this concept, but many of the typical soldiers don't anymore"

Such typical condescending arrogance from the US Navy's toy soldiers. What you need is a good rollicking from an RSM, and then maybe you'd have some sense knocked back into you.

The US army takes most of the flak, does most of the work, and doesn't worry that the marines take most of the glory. They deserve a hell of a lot of respect and deserve better than to be dismissed by people who should bloody well know better.

US Army is a behind the scenes support force anymore. Sacrifice is from those who are the first to land and the last to leave.

And your Royal armed forces most elite units train at MCMAT. Know what MCMAT stand for? Marine Corpsartial Arts Training. Without the US Marines, you all would remain the stuck up Brit pansies you started life as. Oohrah!

Damn phone.. Marine Corps Martial Arts Training.

"Blame that unwillingness to commit ground troops on the people. Ever since Vietnam, every single death results in an outcry from the populace. People don't understand the meaning of sacrifice anymore."

1. People still understand "the meaning of sacrifice," and practice it daily--you don't think there's a ton of economic sacrifice going on in this economy, or fathers and mothers sacrificing a lot just for the chance to live here, or get their kids treated by a doctor, or get their kids into college? There's plenty of will for sacrifice left, it's just that we've redefined what's worth sacrificing for, and have decided that we're rather sick and tired of sacrificing young men for endless wars that seem both unclear and unwinnable (again, if the Brits and Ottomans couldn't change the landscape there, why do we thing we can...or that we should have to, for that matter?)

2. Tell me what we would've gained from a longer stay in Vietnam...and a longer stay in Iraq, for that matter--you mentioned the Greatest Generation in your previous comments (you and krellin both did, I believe)...and yes, they sacrificed more...

But in fairness, I'd argue, the cause they were sacrificing for was more WORTHWHILE.

Defeating Hitler, Mussolini, and the Japanese Empire on the one hand...

A "domino theory" about communism that A. really didn't matter in the end and B. Led to bombings in Cambodia which helped lead to the rise of Pol Pot on the other hand...

And then fighting in Iraq...for...reasons on the other-other hand (to be fair, toppling Saddam was a fine gesture, but we need not have stayed, and if we were so concerned about what would replace Saddam, then perhaps the question needs to be asked--terrible as he was, and he was and evil, evil person...was our toppling him worth both this long war that's followed AND the attempts to fix what we broke AND trying to keep something potentially worse out? You YOURSELF used the "the devil you know" argument last night, Draug...apply that line of reasoning here?)

In any case--

World War II was worth the time and money and lives and sacrifice...

I dare anyone here to say the same about Vietnam or Iraq.

If we were fighting a Hitler-analogue today, we'd have the same level of commitment from our people--remember how moved to passion they were when we first went into Afghanistan to fight/find bin Laden? THEN the morale was high, THEN we thought we had a right and just cause, THEN we thought it was worthwhile...

I dare you to say that, all these years later, it's still as worthwhile.

"The urge to "DO SOMETHING!!!!" without a clear objective or plan is how this whole mess got started."

But you see, Tolstoy, you make the mistake of being calm and logical with a man like krellin...

Who is as far from either as I from Hercules. ;)

Besides, Republicans don't actually care WHAT Obama does (since anything he does is automatically wrong), and they therefore don't need to have any ideas of their own besides shouting "DO SOMETHING!!!" from the safety of a perch that would shield them from any flak were Obama to, well, do something--which they would then criticize anyway.

Take this development, for example:

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-275-us-forces-deploy-iraq-224935615.html

"resident Barack Obama is notifying Congress that about 275 U.S. military personnel could deploy to Iraq.

Obama says the forces are going to provide support and security for U.S. personnel and the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad. He says the forces are equipped for combat and will remain in Iraq until the security situation becomes such that they are no longer needed."

Out of one side of their mouths, the Republicans have been screaming about Benghazi since it happened, and about the lack of security...

Out of the OTHER side of their mouths--who wants to be they howl at Obama for sending 275 troops to add security to the US Embassy in Baghdad...after they howled about there not being ENOUGH security in the Libyan Embassy in Benghazi?

See, they don't need a plan of their own--they just need to shout, and hope you shout along as well.

(So really, Krellin and Co. are just a perverse form of the Barney the Dinosaur sing-a-long style of politics...

I hate you, you hate me,
You're a threat to democracy
Gonna call you a Muslim
And a Nazi too,
Won't you say you hate me too?)

;)

Tolstoy -- you misunerstand. No, I do not want Obama to fucking knee-jerk react and "do something". I agree, that's what got us into this problem. The problem is that about a week ago our fucking useless President ******AGAIN***** got fucking blindsided by a significant global event.

Either that...or the worse alternative....he fucking knew it was coming and just doesn't give a shit.

It would be nice if we had a President that had CONTINGENCY PLANS in place. A President that knew things were destabilizing BEFORE hand and had worked with allies/Iraqi government to prevent the fall.

To NOT acknowledge that AGAIN Obama has displayed an *absolute* failure in leadership makes you just a ridiculous clown.

The woree thing is he had to DEPLOY a carrier group to the Middle East a few days ago because we apparently didn't have one in the region. Really??!?! He didn't fucking having a carrier group within range of Iraq?

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/iraq-turmoil/u-s-aircraft-carrier-ordered-persian-gulf-wake-iraq-unrest-n131256

btw: Hell yes Draug - our resident ex-marine - deserves at least a little fucking respect for being who he is, doing what he did, and his fellow marines *are* collectively a bunch of bads-asses that have earned the right to strut.

AND...less you be allowed to operate under some fucking misunderstanding that Obama gives a shit about Iraq....and let me remind you WE STILL HAVE AN EMBASSY AND US CITIZEN IN FUCKING IRAQ.....This is what our asshole TRAITOR of a President is doing while US citizens are in harm's way in Iraq:

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-California/2014/06/15/After-Climate-Change-Speech-Obama-Jets-to-Palm-Springs-for-Golf

(Remember when Bush was criticized for spending 5 minutes to finish reading a Children's story in a school classroom when the US was attacked? Obama goes off to play golf while the Middle East is devolving into chaos before out very eyes, as Iran is getting ready to send troops into Iraq -- which will *never leave* once they arrive - and Obama is off jetting around on vacation, like EVERY other day of his useless Presidency.)

...So you're equating this with 9/11 now, are you, in severity?

I don't think he should be on vacation either, but come on--in terms of severity, this is nothing like 9/11...and yes, when the US is facing the largest attack in its history, I'd rather the President, you know, lead, rather than read a picture book.

"It would be nice if we had a President that had CONTINGENCY PLANS in place."

Because he doesn't share all his secret plans with you, you assume he was blindsided and doesn't have contingency plans?

You know, I'd rather my President NOT share his contingency plans with the public in a war...that's...that's just kinda, well, bad strategy, I think, right?

I mean, let's be fair, even Al-Qaeda's smart enough to know MSNBC and FOX are full of shit, but hey, they might get bored and tune in right while the President's sharing his plans--

"And, now let me be clear--let's get the facts straight--this IS Contingency Plan #37, What to Do in the Event of a Terrorist Group Saying They Will Definitely Totally Attack Us Somewhere Sometime and Death to America...Codename, South Park."

"and let me remind you WE STILL HAVE AN EMBASSY AND US CITIZEN IN FUCKING IRAQ.....This is what our asshole TRAITOR of a President is doing while US citizens are in harm's way in Iraq:"

Um, he's sending troops. Did you miss my link.

He's sending troops. 275 of them. For security. For those US citizens. For the embassy.

So, yeah, deploying troops I...I think that kinda sorta maybe perhaps counts as a teeny weeny itty bitty little something, right? Just 275 American lives at stake to try and prevent another Benghazi?

But, again--why let links and articles and facts get in the way of a good rant, right?

Well...a rant, anyway.