I had a massive project I presented yesterday, then Duke won the national championship, then I slept till past noon. So forgive me.

##vote dl

Yeah, i figured you were pretty trashed, however, you have three hours to start getting your logic behind your votes/actions. Why did you vote Ghug day 5, why did Bo vote for you on day 2? Snap to it =)

@uclabb, remind me again why we think tv is innocent?

N3 - Flum gets killed, THd gets roleblocked and capt gets doc saved.

This confirmed my thoughts that Flum was cop and had scanned DL. I reasoned THd had fake claimed to try and protect what he thought was real Bo. I had done something similar in a previous game.

I had tv or chaqa as arso and gold, Guak and Ghug as slight mafia.

I hold my tongue about DL, yet try to protect him from lynch. I say I think I know who Flum scanned early. I breadcrumb about batman and Doctor Death hoping DL would pick up on that character, and he'd know I'm fellow town. This failed obviously as DL wasn't doc so wouldn't ever pick up on it. I think I was guilty of confirmation bais because I guessed Flum right and knew THd wasn't dr in same turn. Later DL says he is RB and this feeds into my confirmation bias I think.

I spend rest of game defending myself from attacks which are frankly groundless. Guak's attack in particular is pretty laughable and seems to consist of just repeating scum, scum scum.

I feel forced to spill my thoughts in order to avoid lynch. Ghug had been a slight scum read of mine but if I wasn't on chopping block so late I would've preferred TVrocks lynch, even though I understand uclabb's reasoning why he is unlikely scum I feel (felt) DL, gold, capt and Ghug were/are as unlikely.

Capt tells me clearly he isn't VT and I'm surprised that mafia didn't pick up on this and target someone else last night.

If uclabb is right and TVrocks isn't in the running then at the moment it looks like THd, gold and DL are the mafia team.

This wouldn't surprise me, even with Bo, they arn't the most experienced team and perhaps that would explain some of their mistakes. I think they prob got lucky with +ve scans or lucky targeting chaqa and killing Flum. They prob have been assisted by a lazy town.

This whole game seems to boil down to uclabb, raging and to a lesser extent Guak guessing correct scum from me, gold and DL. I know I'm not cleared, but my gut tells me gold should be lynched. I know he has one townie move to prevent a tie but I can't find anything scummy about DL and I was paying him more attention for half the game when I think he's doctor.

Good luck guys, I know you can do it.

Chaqa confirmed that he was not RBed night 2 (night 3?), which means that either mafia RBed yoyo (unlikely), held their RB (unlikely), or tv was actually RBed, meaning he is town.

I'm on hols and going out for late meal and drinks, will try to check back if you have queries but answers may be short.

Uclabb should I sheep or stay un voted (bearing in mind I may be MIA later)?

I'm not convinced that the thd/guak scenario will sort it out, tbh. One of them is confirmed mafia, right? Why the hell would the mafia kill the real doc of the two of them? Or even rb them? (this is now answering stuff that was said yesterday)

Anyways, Day 1 for me was mostly bumbling around and finding my footing. I acted very, very noobish because it was my first Mafia day and I wanted to learn the ropes as quickly as possible, and caught a whole lot of flack for it. I joke voted on Flum at first since he claimed arsonist as a joke. But in my bumbling around, I did manage to start conversation on the arsonist and his role. Day goes on and I make a joke vote again on ghug because, once again I didn't know what to look for and there wasn't really any consensus/much to build a real case off of anyways.

The rest of the day was me basically deciding between voting Jeff over his decision to hammer a policy lynch and joining the captainmeme wagon due to him holding the town hostage for information. But once captain did contribute to it he was begging for another wagon to form to get people off of. I didn't see the scum stuff in what bo had posted, so jumped on the wagon of another lurker, phil. I followed as best I could during class leading up to the end of the day, but wasn't able to keep up with all the developments and just parked my vote

So that's about it for my day 1 actions.

As for why bo voted for me Day 2, I have no idea Ike. Wouldn't the best thing for a scum to do in his dying moments be paint an innocent townie as the next lynch target? And it very nearly worked (well, we ended up lynching an innocent anyways).

As for the ghug vote, it was basically a choice between Maniac and ghug, right? There were votes on tvrocks at the time, but I was under the assumption that tvrocks was Vengeful Townie (why else try to get lynched with the arsonist claim?). Between Maniac and ghug, I thought ghug was scummier. We had a lot of people who were since confirmed town coming after me on days 3 & 4. Ghug was pretty much my own defender. Wouldn't it make sense for at least one mafia to be running counter to every train that formed? To make them look innocent? That was my logic in the ghug vote.

@Gold, or distance himself from one of his other mafia members that weren't soft cleared.

Also, Ghug posted this back around page 55 with my comments in the ()'s "Thinking at least one of Flum (Cop, Dead), DL, and Chaqa (Arso, Dead) and at least one of Gold and Warden (Town, Dead) is scum now. At least the craziness around EoD should get us some interesting info." That was the end of day three, I don't know how much we should read into that. Two of the people he quotes are still alive, not only that, they could easily be mafia with the information we have.

@Maniac- some of your messaging is confused/unclear- who do you think is mafia?

Thd gold tv but if t vrocks ruled out for 2night I would vote gold

@Maniac you posted this back on pg 61,

"Chaqa - My strongest scum read is probably TVRocks as the arsonist, but I can't see the merit in lynching the arsonist yet. If I'm right about N2 mafia actions, then arsonist will be delivered to us before end of game. If I'm wrong about N2 actions then hopefully someone will be able to put us right before the game ends. (doc)

Regardless of my own reads I have split candidates into 4 groups based on how the group see the game as a whole (based on RagingIke's chart). I acknowledge that scum would also present this data like this so as to try and narrow down choices but think it's worthwhile doing anyway.

Here are the groups:
A: Uclabb, Warden
B: Maniac, Capt
C: Guak, THD, Raging, Chaqa
D: Ghug, TV Rocks, DeathLlama, Gold

From Group D - I'd be willing to lynch Gold, TVRocks and Ghug , and I wouldn't love Death lynch.

From Group C - I'd be OK with Chaqa and Guak lynches, I'd be hostile to THD lynch.

From Group A or B - I wouldn't lynch anyone."

Why would you put DL in that group if you would not want to lynch him? You also state that you would be hostile to a THD lynch, even though he is lower as well. Why, if you are scum reading them, would you not have wanted to flip them and find out?

Back now. Uclabb, I didn't really have too much time to play mafia and spending that time creating a vote tracker instead of trying to solve the puzzle seemed inefficient, especially once meme made his own.

Goldfinger, why did you want to sheep ob on d1?

Raging post was
Regardless of my own reads and I didn't want to alert people to who
I thought was doc

I also say i wouldnt love dl lynch

@ Gold, why are you so adamently defending THD back near 63-67??

Gold pg.63 The only confirmed town in my mind right now are thdfrance and Warden. Everyone else is suspect. I think captain's slip up there was a huge detriment to the town.

Gold pg. 64 @RagingIke - I think thdfrance has done more than enough to show that he's town through the doc claim and the rb claim. Even if he isn't doc, there's no way the mafia would go through with that plan. That doc claim is one of the main things that got bo lynched.

Gold pg. 64 @guak - thd is pretty much confirmed town. There was no counter to his outing on day 1. There was no counter to his RB claim today. Why would the mafia, on the same night as they killed the cop, choose to RB one of their own? More than that, they've already shown that they don't always RB the same person that they kill.

And then this...

Gold pg. 67 @Chaqa - I'm not trying to deny that I look scummy I certainly do.
Content of my posts aside, though, look strictly at who my scum reads were and then the night lynches. D1 it was Minty who I wanted to lynch. Minty was most likely mafia's N1 nightkill. During N1 I try to tell people to wait for the night's results before wagoning on bo. I'm rewarded with bo bussing me before he dies and making me look scummy. D2 is a bit of a wash due to the bo thing, but I had voiced suspicions on uclabb (town), RagingIke (town), Warden (town), Flum (cop, town) and Jeff (town). D3 I wanted Flum to be lynched the most, and lo and behold N3 he dies.
So of course I'm going to look the scummiest. The mafia seem to have gone out of their way to erect a massive blinking neon sign pointing at me, saying "SCUM"
Now, N2 is when the mafia hit the arsonist. If the pattern holds, then it was likely one of my scum reads that they hit. The only ones of those still alive and not cleared is Ike. So there's an odd theory for ya lol.

guak then posts
@goldie: uclabb already said he killed Minty night 1

Chaqa then posts
Gold, man, Fluminator outed himself as cop during D3 and confirmed Warden as innocent. Minty was acknowledged by uclabb as a Vig kill. It's like you're not even paying attention... which I know better of you. Which is why you're scum.

@Maniac, I know you said you wouldn't love the DL lynch, but why would you be opposed to it if you read him was so low on your town list?

Pages Twenty-two Onwards

I ask thdfrance here why he said bo_sox was mafia, then posted an observation I’d gotten from thdfrance (he’d flip-flopped votes a lot between phil and bo_sox). I pushed thd to answer because he appeared to be online, and he did.

I then replied to Ghug’s “is Jeff bothering anyone”, saying Jeff had already bothered me and had a back-and-forth with Jeff over his hammer-dropping. The conversation got a bit heated but I don’t think Jeff ever adequately explained his hammer. This (his reaction) made me suspect him considerably more.

I then posted my first set of reads, saying Chaqa/Flum/Maniac/OB/Ike were town and Meme and Jeff were slight scum and scum. Early on, my reasoning was that my townreads were actively trying to contribute and acting in a pro-town way, while Meme’s reaction to the train on him and Jeff’s reaction and the hammer vote both seemed off.

I also decided towards the end of N1 that I would meta-analyze last game and this game. Anyone, I reasoned, who did not support a policy lynch on DL last game but supported a policy lynch on Meme or vice versa would be suspicious. Unfortunately the night ended before this could happen. At the start of d2, I posted a non sequitur over the hooker RBing themselves - there was no reasoning behind this.

I voted bo_sox on pg29 due to Flum’s docsave claim. However, I didn’t really do much for the rest of d2.

During n2, I posted my analysis on the meta- Meme v. DL, and questioned Warden and Jeff for voting differently. Warden never replied but didn’t seem to have noticed it, and Jeff only answered half of the question, making me suspect him more.

@Gold, Pg.69 "Look, if you guys really think that you'll gain information from lynching me, then go ahead and lynch me. But SO many people were willing to lynch me that I don't think a lynch of myself would be useful at all. The only people who were really defending me were ghug. Putting pressure on others and seeing how the votes change is really the best way to go here. As someone just said - we're at a point now where actions start to matter more than scum reads."

Also, I don't believe for a second that tvrocks is arsonist. His "admitting" post was done so very half-heartedly and he never followed up on it. "

So did you know that TV was not the arsonist?

It wasn't my town list raging it was the combined town list taken from your reads document

Oh, that makes so much more sense now. Thank you for bearing with me and clarifying there, had a moment...

No probs this is last post sorry, game is important but family more so

Page Forty Onwards

Time for day three! I posted a set of reads, scumreading Jeff for a.) the end vote b.) the meta-analysis and c.) the fact that he was playing more aggressively than previously, slight-scumread Gold for abusing the newb card, sheeping OB, and taking interest in PRs. I also townread Maniac, Flum, and Uclabb. I also later townread Ike because he was trying to contribute ideas despite being a new player.

On page forty-three, I put my vote on Jeff for being my top scumread. On page forty-four, I posted another set of reads, townreading to various degrees Meme, Chaqa, Flum, Guak, Maniac, Ike, and Uclabb and scumreading Goldfinger and Jeff. Both of my scumreads have already been explained - I townread more players that seemed to be trying to help.

I then asked thdfrance why he wouldn’t push for his scumread Jeff/Chaqa instead of TVRocks who he voted for when there was plenty of time left in the day. Maniac asked me why I inno-read Chaqa and I explained he was contributing more and I (mistakenly) thought he had helped get the bo train started, saying I’d prefer a jeff/gold lynch.

I then posted a three-part case on Jeff and why he was scum - basically for the reasons above, but also for inconsistency, bo townreading him for no good reason, and voting Flum to “start a train”, as well as keeping the arsonist around and hedging in his latest reads post by not reading anyone as full scum instead of slight scum.

When Gold posted his long rant, I jumped on him because I thought he was suggesting that making reads was not worth it. He later clarified he meant leaping off the tiniest of “slips” and I unvoted him. I then voted Jeff again.

I also said I didn’t see why maf would bus bo that early before he was a lynch candidate, however once the train started I no longer would consider it to be a soft-clear. This soft-cleared Guak, Maniac, and Warden for me.

I showed up towards end-of-day after going for a jog, saying I would be okay with a lynch on Jeff OR Gold, but not a tie (obviously). I then flipped to goldfinger because none of my townreads were voting for Jeff. Soon after I said this most of my townreads flipped to Jeff so I went back to Jeff and stayed with him until the end, where it was revealed he was just a scummy-seeming councillor.

As Jeff had flipped councillor, I decided to analyze his train and asked Ike, Chaqa, Guak, TV, Flum, and Ghug to explain some of their actions here. “RagingIke - slapped a vote on Jeff Kuta to "force him to claim". Please explain Ike, this sounds a lot like PR fishing.
Chaqa - Did you explain why you thought Jeff was scum if Gold was inno / vice versa? If not I find that a bit scummy - it might be maf trying to set up a Gold lynch tomorrow.
Guak - Why did you waste your vote on WD?
TVRocks - Your opinion on Jeff seemed to flip-flop a lot, can you explain why?”
Fluminator - Flip-flopped a bit and I don't think he ever posted a Jeff case. Worth a full read.
ghug - Why did you say you weren't sold on a Jeff lynch if you'd previously said before multiple times you thought he was scum?

I did nothing more of relevance for the rest of D3.

PAGE FIFTY-SOMETHING ONWARDS (D4)

I posted another set of reads, scumreading Ghug/Gold/TV and townreading Meme/Guak/Maniac/Warden/Uclabb, saying I’d post actual cases later when it was less late. I slapped my vote on Gold for being my biggest scumread and said I was super busy for the entire day. I was touring colleges for the entire day. I then changed my vote to TVRocks to pressure him into claiming arsonist.

Later on (pg64), I posted a few snippets on everyone. I voiced some concern on mafia giving us a fake arsonist to lynch. However, I apparently flipped my vote to Goldfinger, my other biggest scumread. I asked to hear the case on me and said I’d be okay with a lynch of TV or Gold.

I then flipped onto Chaqa because I thought they were maf fake-claiming with pressure on them. During the night, I post another set of reads and answer Ike’s (I think it was Ike?) questions. I also suspect Ike a bit because “Ike seeming a bit scummy - scumreads Goldfinger like everyone else, then says he'd be willing to lynch one of his lower townreads and flips his vote to DL while Goldfinger is still in the lead. If Goldfinger flips scum like I expect he will I'll be a bit suspicious of Ike.” I push on Ike a bit more to explain unvoting Goldfinger (one of his scumreads) to vote for me (one of his townreads).

On page seventy-six, in response to Ike’s “your voting record is anti-town”, I posted this:

“D1 - Supported a lynch of Meme until he contributed, took my vote off him because he contributed, moved my vote to phil_a_s because he hadn't contributed either.
D2 - Lynched Bo for being scum.
D3 - Prepared a case on why Jeff was scum, thought he was actually scum, flipped to Goldfinger when all of my town reads were on him and then back to Jeff after they left, was disappointed to see him flip town.
D4 - Voted Goldfinger for being scum, thought TVRocks was arsonist and Chaqa was scum fake-claiming, having only had thirty seconds to reread, so I flipped over to Chaqa.”

@uclabb: you forgot to mention that Chaqa could had been lying about the rb. As to why he would do so, I think that Chaqa was trying to leverage the fact that he had doused several targets of unknown allegiance, so mayeb he thought he would had benefited from making the town believe he had one more douse than he actually had.

Still, I agree with your description of unlikely.

I still do not see why the Maniac/gold team is so far-fetched to you when they have been playing so similarly for large parts of the game. I would agree that if this pair is not scum then DL necessarily is the more likely mafia because of tv's mafia unlikelihood. But I do not see it yet. Why did the post you mentioned made you believe they cannot be a team?

I have to go in like five minutes for a bit but will try to be on again before deadline, although not at it. ##UNVOTE ##VOTE GOLD for now, if you've any questions for me please ask them now.