Thugs aren't allowed to threaten elected leaders with abduction and take over government buildings, goldfinger.

Let's be clear, if any government dares to be independent of Washington's rule, goldfinger who dig up anything he can find as an excuse for why he supports its violent overthrow. Chavez was democratically elected, but apparently he's an "autocrat" because he didn't go along with Washington. Ditto Peron.

Putin33 - I haven't made anything up. I merely copied and pared your quotes.

We don't know if Russia has given any ultimatums to Ukrainian generals. Why are you so insistent it hasn't happened? If I was in putin's shoes I would be looking to escort Ukrainian soldiers back to Ukraine. Militarily it is the right thing to do, the Ukrainians would be well advised to leave, they can't fight their way out and starting a fight would encourage Russia to move further into the Ukraine.

Do you now accept that they are Russian troops in Crimea by the way?

"We don't know if Russia has given any ultimatums to Ukrainian generals. Why are you so insistent it hasn't happened?"

No no no. You can't pull this shit. You buffoons were so cocky and sure of yourselves, claiming it was clear as day that Russia ordered an ultimatum. Now you try and pull this garbage about how you can make up anything you want, and now it's on me or anybody disputing your lies to prove it didn't happen.

Putin, I was one of the cocky ones. Maniac wasn't (iirc)

Then why wasn't Maniac copying your quotes?

It's you guys who have jumped the gun on so many things that have turned out to be untrue, yet Maniac is calling me Comical Ali?

You would think that after doing this so many times you guys would stop lecturing others about 'reputable sources' and slow down with your wild accusations and irresponsible histrionics, but nope, it continues.

@goldfinger

I didn't realise Chavez was a dictator, i thought he ruled with quite a large popular mandate. My bad.

Also I think it's fairly clear that Hitler broke many key democratic tenets, whereas, as far as I'm aware, there were going to be elections in the Ukraine soon, and the president wasn't killing 6 million jews.

The Bandera-ites are democrats and Putin is Hitler. Up is down and black is white.

The comparisons of Putin to Hitler in mainstream media are laughable at best, but really just offensive and disgusting. Also laughable is the attempt I'm seeing (of the media) to portray south ossetia as an example of Putin's aggressive Hitler-esque movings.

What it means is Georgia and Ukraine are allowed to attack people and Russia is supposed to sit back and allow it to happen, because naturally that's what NATO who bombs people halfway around the world for no reason, would do.

Putin. Just to be clear, I never made any comments about Russia giving ultimatums.

For the record I was against the UK and others violating Libya's sovereignty and territorial integrity under the pretext of humanitarian need and obligation to protect. I'm also against Russia seizing control of the Crimea and any other regions within the Ukraine. I hope that Russia will now secure the region and work towards allowing the people to make their own choice of government. I hope that the 'government' of the Ukraine will also allow be encouraged to allow a free choice and to recognise all minority's rights.

Just to be clear then, why are you targeting my comments when it's clear that other people were making stuff up?

There are some disturbing similarities between Putin and Hitler. Both of them were elected leaders of a significant power, both were born in a foriegn country, both favoured short haircuts... They're practically the same person!

The media reporting of this situation from every source I've seen (including Russian) has been a shambles of thinly disguised propaganda. A victory of good narrative over truth. I just hope that Putin's plan (and if one thing seems totally clear it's that Russia had a well thought out contingency plan for if Ukraine ever got itself into this mess) is robust enough to handle the apparent reactionary desperation of the glorious EU and the good old USofA.

Putin - I didn't mean to have a go at you personally. I think you fell into the trap of always disbelieving the media because they sometimes lie. But sometimes they tell the truth and report what is really happening, trying to deny it leaves you digging a whole for yourself. You blame the media for lying, but you are also the media when you post on here and you make assertions without checking facts. These arn't Russian soldiers, just defending themselves, no ultimatums have been given. You and I don't know for sure if ultimatums have been given, we could just wait and see.

Bbc is reporting that former president is inviting Russia into Ukraine. This is the cover Putin needs to cross the border. As he was democratically elected he can invite foreign troops in to assist if necessary. This could give the west a headache.

It's difficult to wait and see when every day goldfinger or somebody else bombards this place with links about 'disturbing reports'.

The 'deadline' seems to have passed without incident.

How do we all rate the likelihood of Russia moving into the Eastern Ukraine? They have troops ' on exercise' on the border, they have Russian speaking in major cities calling for help, and they have an invite, it seems, from the democratically elected president.

On the other hand, they have western condemnation, the rouble have fallen through the floor, the micex is down and they risk starting a much bigger war. Also they have the threat of being banned from the soccer World Cup and already they have had prince Edward pull out of the Paralympics.

My guess is that we will see Russian incursions this week unless the west quit rattling their paper swords and start addressing some of Russia's concerns. I'm guessing only a roll-back to the 21st February agreement would suffice from putin's point of view.

It depends on how quickly Russia get what they want. I suspect Moscow was perfectly happy with the status quo of a democratically elected Russian leaning President, and was willingly to invest billions to keep it that way (which from a Ukrainian point of view was really not bad a deal).

It now seems unlikely that we will be able to return to that anytime soon, so I suspect Russia will be pushing for greater autonomy for Russian speaking regions and the construction of a few permanent Russian military bases in said regions to ensure their autonomy is respected. There will probably be an agreement that says the Ukraine can join the EU, but only if all its regions vote in favour of it, effectively making it impossible.

After Russia has achieved all its goals, of course, the EU and USA will be able to congratulate each other on preventing a war and various other imaginary disasters.

I put nothing past Russia and Putin.

Putin's had his way in Syria, already had his Olympics...

Frankly, the man is on fire in terms of the international stage...

Where, sadly, the US and UK have flagged lately (I'd argue that's a blame shared a amongst both countries' leaders and legislative branches, but that's another story and certainly another thread.)

If Putin thinks he has something to gain by massing into Eastern Ukraine...

Who here really thinks he won't, at this point?

He's on fire, and who's going to stop him?

The USA?
The EU?
The UN?
Any combination of the above?

No one's going to send troops to help resisting Ukrainians if Putin chooses to invade--er, sorry, "assist" native-speaking Russians...because of course this is only an altruistic relief mission and not anything like annexation or a power play whatsoever!

The sad but true fact is that America's in the position where England was after ore during the World Wars--namely, at the twilight of its prominence, but not quite yet willing to go gentle into that good night.

The power has swung again...not necessarily to Russia, but really, to international blocs--

The West vs. the East, EU/UK/US vs. Russia/China/North Korea/others in that region.

It can't even be played out with a proxy war this time (for better and worse) because no way the former two support Israel at this point...Netanyahu (sadly) has burned far too many bridges...the EU/UK aren't fans of Assad either, but if Syria/Israel come into conflict (which is always a possibility and, given recent events along the border, definitely is a possibility at this point) chances are good Israel receives tepid-to-zero support while Putin backs the murderous Assad.

Such is the sad state of the world.

But, hey--

At least we have the World Cup to look forward to!

*Sees the embarrassing Golf Shirt US Jerseys*

...ugh...I'm no huge fan of soccer and even *I* think those jerseys suck...damn it, Nike!

I find it fascinating that back in 1996 Samuel Huntington was predicting that the Ukraine would split up in a roughly similar fashion to what is occurring right now.

"These fascists don't represent Ukraine, Obi. Keep cheering on the neo-nazis though."

I cheer neither side...?

O.o

I know subtlety is, well, a foreign concept to you, Putin, but it IS possible to object to Ukranian policy AND Putinist policy at the same time...

But go ahead thinking the world is black-and-white and that you MUST choose a side...

Just be careful, for to quote the illustrious Bard--by which I mean Bob Dylan--

"Come writers and critics
Who prophesier with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won’t come again
And don’t speak too soon
For the wheel’s still in spin
And there’s no telling who that it’s naming
For the loser now will be later to win
For the times they are a-changing"

Or, in other words--

Heeeeeeey Putin33-man, play a song for me.........

@kaner:

I find it fascinating Jared Leto thinks people in the Ukraine are watching the Oscars in the midst of this and give a damn what he has to say...because things are quickly becoming five kinds of shit there, but oh no, they're tuning into the Oscars to hear Jared Leto give a speech (and apparently to watch Jennifer Lawrence trip AGAIN...lo, damn, for as little as I care about Hollywood, she seems like an incredibly-nice person, but she has to watch her step!) :p

@obi

I have no idea who Jared Leto is, and nor do I know who Jennifer Lawrence is. So just in case this is an oblique reference to 'who S. Huntington is?' then this is the reference where he talks about potential Ukrainian crises (pp. 163-168).

Huntington, S.P. (1996). 'The clash of civilizations and the remaking of world order', New York: Simon & Schuster.

Huntington's work is prescient as ever, yes. It's a pity the STEM folk kept him out of the National Academy of Sciences.

For as trivial as it is (namely, 110%...)

Jared Leto: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmg8wTyht-c

Jennifer Lawrence (from last year): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDU7zLAd2-U

Russia has just test-launched a ICBM from Russia into Kazakhstan.

A link for SYnapse's statement:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/as-ukraine-tension-flares-russia-testfires-ballistic-missile-20140305-hvg45.html