There was a proposal way back when (I want to say in the Carter administration - the only potentially good thing in that time) that would have tracked all gun ownership in a federal database. Not only would that keep people from getting a gun without the proper qualifications, but it would also allow us to pinpoint the places where guns are illegally sold most often. It was shot down by - shocking - the NRA.

But some of the gun rights enthusiasts in this forum have supported such an idea. Perhaps there's a middle ground that would make us *all* unhappy. And that's the grand dream of democracy, right?

To make us all unhappy? Uhh... no, I don't think it is.

I'm sorry, did I forget to use the proper [SARCASM] and [/SARCASM] code?

Yeah. I just thought it was a typo o_O

Hecks, I hunted and fished a LOT in maine Great state, lovedit there. People there are real, and always really friendly.

My father usedto take mybrother and I all thru new hampshire, vermont, parts of canada, main to trout fish and Deer hunting.

Never tried Moose hunting, although I saw what hitting one did to a car.

Someone earlier hit on this exactly. this is a cultural problem more than a guns problem.

I am from Tennessee hecks, so both states probably have high density gun #s. My point is, where I am from we hardly lock our doors even. There is something different thanliving here, than in say Philly or Boston, of which I lived in both.

In certain parts of Alaska, people don't even have doors. They live on rivers that kayakers will come down during the summer and they literally took off the door and nailed a sign to their outside wall that offered salmon and a bed. They leave the house for the summer and come back, often finding hundreds of thank you notes left on the table.

Of course everyone in Alaska has a gun. There's a reason for that. Bears wander in your backyard and unfortunately you aren't going to be able to take your chances. Seems to me that, aside from Anchorage, people are perfectly content with that kind of a culture though.

Bo Sox, we havecoyotes, bears, feral hogs, bobcats here, and all are plentiful.

Apparently we have started introducing red Wolves to the area also (wtf for I am not sure)

The Tennessee Wildlife Team says we have no Mountain lions, but I have seen videos from other hunters showing...mountain lions.

My friend is a fur trapper, and he has taken picturesof big cat tracks, so I am going to guess we have those also.

Maybe Bo Sox, The City culture breeds the violence more than a rural?

I don't doubt that one bit. I was inviting into a gang a few days after I turned 16 (I declined and made sure I had a switch handy the next few weeks...). I doubt that would happen in Atwood, you know?

However, it's completely unrealistic to do something in cities if it's not done in rural areas too in my mind. Whatever happens will effect everyone or no one.

wELL, you also run into another problem Bo Sox, actually enforcing these laws in rural areas. You think these county sheriffs are going to disarm their family and friends?

lol, not a chance in hell. Is the Fed going to send teh ATF down here? Well, that would get.....ugly I think.

Probably would. Yeah, I don't trust cops to do much of anything anymore. They spend more time pulling me over for going 70 in a 60 than stopping actual crime. However, they don't have an easy job either way, so I try not to disrespect them (Out of fear? Maybe..).

I still don't think we need to ban guns. Since I started getting into this debate here instead of people I agree with on every count, there have been more sensible pro-gun arguments than anywhere else. I think guns should simply be registered in a federal database which controls background checks and license checks. I also think it should be harder to be licensed than what it is now. Assault rifles could be banned; they will be in the end, so I'm over that. Handguns are fine as long as they're locked up and used by the right person - easier said than done. I don't like semi-automatics but I don't know enough to debate them. That's as far as I can really propose, and considering that, in reality, I'd love to ban guns for personal reasons, I find that to be a serious compromise.

What is an 'Assault Rifle' Because, an AR 15 is not. Semi-Automatics are just about every rifle with a clip though. I can not fire a Ar 15 any faster than I can a 22 with a clip.

I am fine with registering, I am not okay with lockign hand guns up, I have a CCP, and carry often. never pulled it on someone, but I also run a very cash intensive business, and often am carrying large amounts ofmoney in bad areas of Chattanooga I am not going to give up that right to carry that gun, because the person that wants to rob me, will certainly not obey that law himself.


Tennessee and a few other states have already started putting laws on the books protecting gun rights, and of course if the Feds try to push it, may find a lot of fights going on in court.

Bottom line is, if the State Authorities wont enforce a Federal law, how can they hope to enforce it?

ATF cant go in alone, especially if the state government is hostile towards them

Like I said, I don't know enough to answer that question. The only gun I ever picked up was a 45 Glock once and some kind of rifle when I was a scout in fourth grade - don't even remember what it was. I carry a switch and I can throw it or cut with it, but I doubt I'll ever be one to pick up a gun.

So, to be honest, you are wanting or at least supporting a decision to ban something you do not understand?

Its not your fault Bo, it is the fateof our nation, as we enter a darker time, and thisride will probably not be a good one that we are about to go on.

I support what I believe is best for the community that I know best. I live in a suburb and hang out in a city. For I'd say a month or so a year I am at my lakehouse in a rural area but I don't go there with the intent of taking in the culture. It's certainly best in inner city environments to get rid of these weapons. For you it may not be. That's my point here. If I lived 20 years straight in a rural place, maybe I'd think differently.

The one thing I need to understand about guns is that they do nothing *in my community* than kill other humans. You've obviously got a different use for them. That's where I am trying to understand and be compromising so that it works for both sides.

"you are wanting or at least supporting a decision to ban something you do not understand?"

No. I am not asking to ban guns. I'd love to, but that's not what I am going for. I am asking to reform gun purchases and make sure that guns stay in the right hands. I know plenty of people that would be serial killers if a gun fell into their belt. The way you press me on banning guns, I have to think you don't read my posts, and to me, that makes no sense.

Nah Bo, you misundertand me, I can see you at least are trying to see it from my side of the fence.

I dont think this will get fixed ever, and any real knee jerk reaction by obama will not go well I am guessing.

Any knee jerk reaction will probably be shot down by any literalist court he turns to (i.e the Supreme Court).

and Bo sox for the record, I dont think everyone is the same in regards to their responsibility with a gun either.

I am obviously much more comfortable and experienced with firearms than you or your friends, or for that matter, anyone you know probably (I am ex Army also), and have handled them since the age of 6 or 7.

Guns are just a tool for me, but they are a very important tool, and also a very important cultural item for us here in Applachia, and I assume elsewhere.

As long as you're responsible for it, that's fine. There is a lot of violence in the inner cities - Chicago obviously notorious for it - that are in geographic areas in which gun ownership is widely accepted. It's pretty clear that there is a total lack of understanding of the other side of things on both ends and that's the real problem.

The funny part is, that Chicago has the most strictgunlaws in the country, and their homicide rate is thru the roof, so the gun bans are NOT working there.

@ bo_sox48

Assault rifle -- The US Military's definition is the commonly accepted one in the gun community, but the left has hijacked the word to confuse the public "A lightweight *selective fire*, air-cooled, magazine-fed rifle firing an intermediate power (e.g. 5.56x45mm NATO, 7.62x39mm Russian being the two most common throughout the world) cartridge.

Semi-automatic - A weapon that fires one round for each pull of the trigger until ammunition is exhausted. A skilled shooter can fire a semi-automatic weapon at about 45-60 rounds per minute, not including reloads or allowing for the barrel to cool. Most modern handguns and rifles are semi-automatic. These guns are unrestricted in most US states, and are legal everywhere except in parts of Illinois. (The Illinois ban has recently been struck down in court and the Illinois state legislature has been ordered to repeal the bill within 180 days)

Automatic (full automatic) - A weapon that fires continuously as long as the trigger is held down and ammunition is not exhausted. The weapon stops firing when the trigger is released or ammunition is depleted. These weapons have been heavily restricted since 1934 by federal law, and effectively banned to all but those with a Federal Firearms License (available only to dealers, collectors, defense contractors, etc.) since 1986. No automatic weapons have been manufactured for civilian use since 1986.

Selective fire - A weapon featuring a selection switch, allowing the shooter to choose either semi-automatic or full-automatic fire (three round burst available on some weapons). These weapons have the same restrictions as full-automatic weapons.

Assault weapon - a recent word coined by gun control advocates. This word has no basis in previous words used to classify guns. Assault weapons have an ever-changing definition but the word has historically referred to any semi-automatic weapon with two or more of the following features:

flash suppressor/hider -- used to lessen the flash of the weapon from the *shooter's perspective*; it is physically impossible to hide the flash from any other perspective)

detachable magazine -- a staple of most post-WWII civilian and military weapons; allows for faster reloads and increased ammunition capacity compared to older guns

folding/collapsing stock -- a relatively common feature on modern rifles and shotguns; allows the shooter to shorten the overall length of the gun for easier use and storage in close quarters

bayonet lug -- allows a bayonet to be mounted on the gun for close quarters combat (CQC). Bayonets are seldom used in modern combat (The US Military has not executed a bayonet charge since the Vietnam War). Bayonets themselves are unrestricted for civilian sale but are somewhat rare and expensive for most guns.

pistol grip -- decreases muzzle climb and perceived recoil; a near-universal feature on most rifles and many shotguns since the 1960s.
___________________

High-capacity magazine -- a recently coined phrase used by anti-gun propagandists. No consistent definition, recently used to describe magazines holding more than ten rounds. Most modern rifles and pistols are designed for magazines with more than ten rounds.

Do these definitions help?

@Stressed... as does New York and it is working there. Goes back to the "results may vary" theory, one that I think has merit.

@Gun ... yeah, that helps. I'll stick with my Endura and Goddard though ;)

Bounce. Everyone in these various gun debates needs to read my definitions, which are completely accurate. There are five issues that I care about:

1) Gun rights
2) Abortion
3) Immigration/border security
4) Military spending
5) Size and budget of the federal government

@GunF - why don't you tell us a bit about yourself, you sound like a fascinating guy with a lot to offer the world, and don't hold back on the detail, that would be our loss. Take your time, the best things in life are worth the wait.

The things you should care about:

1) Gun control
2) Right to abortion
3) Immigration reform
4) Military spending cuts
5) Smart spending within federal government

If you're smart, you'll throw the environment in there, but hey, the USA has plenty of people that don't get that. I'll leave it to all of you to tell three generations down the road that we did it because it was good for the economy.

bo sox, actually, I am probably one of the more 'green' people you know, but it is for different reasons I think than the enviornment (although that didplay into it as well, and made it a nice 'extra') alone.

I have solar power, use septic, have a new hoda civic (also have a truck for obvious reason, and hate hybrids, so it was the honda civic at 40 plus MPG for me) I throw away almost NO trash.

I actually have a worm farm for food recycling...lol And the worms breed like crazy, and go to my chickens, into my ardens, etc when they become over-populated.

I grow only organic food, for the most part.

You would not think someone like me, very conservative would be so, but I am...lol

i also use wood heat in the winter exclusive, even though for insurance reasons I have electric heat available (wood heat cant be a primary without a big insurance hit) I use only wood.

Now, things I do that are NOT eco friendly. 4 wheelers. Love em...lol thankfully 3 gallons of gas will get you pretty far on those things. I can literaly ride them for 12 hours, and still not be ready to stop. However, 3 gallons will get me thru the day usually.

have yet to find a good solution for plastic disposal, other than the trash.

Oh well, thought i woudl chime in there on that, since it is actually something I do better than most people who try to champion the cause.

yes, NYC is doing rather well with it, although I remember a few years ago, a newspaper (the postmaybe?) came up with a story that said police were told to fudge reports, by downgrading some violetn crimes into minor crimes, but I cant remember the exact details.

I think they only had like 400 homicides last year, so for them it is working.

Abortion rights?! You mean the "right" to kill a baby?!

@ NigeeBaby

Have you ever contributed anything to any reasonable discussion *ever*?

@ bo_sox48

Right now we're talking about guns, which is in my top five issues. Let's shelve the other four for another day, okay?

I'm not necessarily *against* environmentalism, but I don't think that the federal government has either the right or the resources to do anything about it. State governments need to pick up the slack on this. You can have last word on the environment issue, then we go back to guns, okay?