Yeah, because fox NEVER does that. Not to excuse MSNBC, but keep it real now, Stressed.

I did nto say that, did I? Iactually prefer to watch European news, they tend to tell the truth more about my own country than ANY of ours.

I watch CNN more than Fox, so not sure where Fox came in there. I said Cnn adn Fox have a 'sliver' of the truth, but MSNBC is just really bad, and their ratings are proving it out.

@Stressed

"You know, I can watch CNN or Fox, and feel there is at least a silver of truth, but when MSNBC says anything, I feel like its 100% a lie."
If you swap where you said Fox and MSNBC, I feel the exact same way.

@Yellowjacket,
"Yeah, because fox NEVER does that."
Still doesn't make it okay.

I thought it was very interesting the other week when we had National Volunteer Day (what, you need a special day to tell you that helping people is good?) and MSNBC online ran pictures of Chelsea Clinton for three days...what were they trying to say? "Stay tuned for the announcement of Chelsea Clinton's candidacy for *choose an office* which we are already cheerleading for" is my guess.

hecks, again, does not matter whatI watch. MSNBC does shit like this often.

Their ratings are pure shit for it.

Fox and CNN are not much better, but I can at least stomach 10 minutes of them

Yeah, see, I'd have said Fox News does shit like this often. MSNBC and CNN are not much better, but I can at least stomach 10 minutes of them.

But then, I don't watch any of them, so...

Does anyone else feel like arguing about which TV News is better is like betting on a headless-chicken race?

hecks, nor do I, since I dont have cable, but I get lots of emails about stuff like this.

If I watch any American news, it is from my phone, and it is a video.

Hell, I can get better information here half the time...lol

MSNBC did it, and they did that other switch a roo with sandy hook that i posted also.

Journalism is dead in America, and has been for a LONG time.

"Journalism is dead in America, and has been for a LONG time."

I wouldn't say that. I find NPR to be very reliable. Also, a fee newspapers are still pretty good.

It's a sad state of affairs when the Daily Show offers more reliable news than Fox, CNN, or MSNBC.

Bottom line is they'd all be a lot better if they stopped masquerading as news stations and marketed themselves as news commentary stations.

Abge, sure, there are a few exceptions out there, but the ones that hold the bulk of our ears are all full of shit

"Abge, sure, there are a few exceptions out there, but the ones that hold the bulk of our ears are all full of shit"

Surely that's the fault of the viewers, though.

NPR and the BBC are where I get most of my news.

I almost added "that and the Huffington Post" but that would just be baiting you guys.

I get all my general news from NPR, BBC, and the Economist.

My tech news comes from The Verge.

My science news comes from Scientific American and Science.

There really isn't a shortage of good journalism (even in America), you just have to want to be exposed to it.

General, political and world news: NPR & BBC all the way! And considering I lean more conservative in much of politics that is saying a lot for NPR. They are the *true* fair and balanced journalism pros. Business comes from Business Week and Forbes and some WSJ, although WSJ is usually lagging behinds the other two in prompt reporting.

My main reason for following the mainstream media is to better understand where and how other people get their views on the main issues. You don't watch Fox or MSNBC to actually learn anything. Some news agencies do it better than others (can't complain about NPR), but in the Age of Information, the stuff being thrown in your face has an agenda behind it 99% of the time. You have to look in the small places to get the real facts about anything.

For anybody who's interested, I just found out that podcasts of complete issues of The Economist are available for free download on iTunes.

But you have to search for Economist: Full Edition, not Economist: All Audio.

CNN>anything else>onion>fox>MSNBC

*anything else american. European news like BBC or the economist is >CNN

"But then, I don't watch any of them, so... " Ahhh...the typical fool, slamming <X> even though he has no real experience with it. I weep for this nation if you are at all representative of the voting public...

@krellin - I don't have to watch gay porn on a regular basis to know I don't like it. CNN, MSNBC, Fox, ABC, NBC, CBS... I've watched them all with their paid stories and their biased points of view. I choose to spend my time watching news services that are focused on journalism, not sensationalism.

"It's a sad state of affairs when the Daily Show offers more reliable news...." followed up by "I get my news from a comedian/starist...and yes, *I'm* smart enough to know when Stewie switches from truth to sarcasm....

<Rolls eyes...> Fool...

Let me ask you, if you are not watching any "real" news broadcasts, how do you know what part of Comedy Central is real, and what is fake? How do you know, after the 10 second joke is over, how much of what you have heard has been taken GROSSLY out of context in order to make the joke work.

Again...I seriously weep for this nation, because sadly the "I get my news from Comedy Central" is a theme I hear far more often than is believable. If the frequency with which I hear/read such statements were used in a comedy sketch, the skit would fail because it's so overboard as to be unbelievable/unfunny...and yet it sadly seems to be the truth i modern America....

@ krellin,
I suppose I should have said that I don't watch them *anymore*. Nor do I frequently watch the Daily Show anymore. That was intended more as an insult to the broadcast outlets than as a serious statement. I canceled my cable some time ago.

As pointed out elsewhere, I get my news from the Economist, NPR, and the BBC. These are, from your statements, acceptable news outlets, so please, finish reading before you insult.

Draug - there is a difference between "I don't like it" and telling me what the content is.

I would suggest it is *literally* impossible to tell me Fox News is worse than CNN / MSNBC is you watch NONE of them and therefore literally can not tell me if their news is accurate, biased, etc...especially when (apparently) his real source of news is Comedy fucking Central!

The truth is that, like a good sheep, far too many people watch NONE of them, and then proceed to bash them because that is *what they heard others say...*

I hoenstly can't judge MSNBC because I don't watch it. FOX is biased right...big deal. CNN is biased left. NPR is hit and miss, but definitely left-leaning. If you want the real story, you do your homework and source your information from a variety of sources and you *might* be able to divuldge the truth.

Within the last couple of week 47 hostages were taken, including 7 Americans, by Al Queda affiliated terrorists. Under Bush, this would have been on the news 24/7. Under Obama, none of these news outlets paid much attention at all...including NPR and the precious Comedy Central. Fox probably paid a bit more attention.

To suggest Fox has no worth (as some do) is simply them demonstrating that they only want one form of gross bias...

OK, I get what you are getting at. My point was strictly that I do get *my* news from reasonably reliable sources. NPR and BBC are actually more likely to report on the AQ hostages than the big three broadcast networks or even CNN (M$NBsC is just part of NBsC).

Here's a page you guys might be interested in...

http://www.bbc.co.uk

In my French class today, of 21 students, I was the only one that knew about Mali. I can't find it on American sites aside from CNN, which, while certainly skewed a bit, is good at reporting international events.

BBC = yay.

Krellin, man the fuck up or go away.

"I would suggest it is *literally* impossible to tell me Fox News is worse than CNN / MSNBC is you watch NONE of them and therefore literally can not tell me if their news is accurate, biased, etc".

You keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means. Example:

1. Fox News is worse than CNN
2. Their news is not accurate and biased.

See, it was literally possible.

I think the word he was looking for was 'convince'

You know, I can watch CNN or MSNBC, and feel there is at least a silver of truth, but when FOX says anything, I feel like its 100% a lie.

Apparently they doctored some video to show more rally members at a GOP event than there actually were, a fact Jon Stewart called them on it, to just give one of many instances.

Just a propaganda device apparently. Their ratings reflect it.

Hey, this sounds familiar...hmmm... ;)

@Draugnar-

Why would it be saying a lot about NPR that you tend conservative? So does NPR.

Most here would argue that NPR tends liberal. I believe it has no political leanings except towards *people*. They do run a lot of stories about human rights abuse in other nations (even those who are our allies), but that is somethign both sides should be concerned about.

@obi - Jon Stewart is a comedian. You *cannot* take what he says as literal truth. If you do, you are seriously deceiving yourself. The Daily Show is no different than Letterman's or Leno's opening monologue, just rpesented in a "news show" format. seriously.

I'm not taking it as literal truth...

...though the incident in question WAS acknowledged by FOX itself to be a "mistake" on their part.

My point remains--

Every partisan volley you can (rightfully) lob at MSNBC, you can invert it and lob it right back at FOX...

And of you don't think that's the case, you are seriously deceiving yourself.

You know, after reading up on things a little, I think (and don't expect me to say this often) Krellin may have been right to criticize me. My opinion of MSNBC is based on the last time I watched it regularly, which was maybe five years ago. It does seem as though, since I abandoned it, there's been a conscious shift toward leftist commentary on the news. So maybe I've been too lenient in my criticism of it, acting on old information.

That said, unless anyone would argue that Fox News has made a centrist move in the last five years, I stand by my criticism there.

Where I think MSNBC does a better job than Fox News is how it markets itself. In their marketing (which I do see regularly) I think there's more of an understanding/acknowledgement in MSNBC's "Lean Forward" slogan that they're offering a slanted perspective, whereas Fox News sticks with their "Fair and Balanced" mantra, which I'd suggest is a little disingenuous.

@obi - I have already said as much. Fox is neither fair nor balanced. I have said they are the Tea Party's mouthpiece. So have no fear, I believe Fox about as much as I believe MSNBC.

American journalism is truly in a sad state, isnt it? There's something deeply tragic about the worldpower who has played a huge role in the name of the free world, to now have a fourth estate as weak as it currently is. Or am I too pessimistic?

@Draugnar

If most of the people here would argue that NPR tends liberal, I would invite them to pay a bit more attention. The career of Adam Davidson, e.g. or the reported fact that a significant majority of NPR's political sources are self-described conservatives ought to give lie to that belief. Or, you know, 20 seconds worth of reflection about what it means when news programming is directly paid for as a tax break for Fortune 500 companies.

@ Minister
It does, indeed, *seem* bad, but we should remember this quote, railing against the press.

“I am sure that I never read any memorable news in a newspaper. If we read of one man robbed, or murdered, or killed by accident, or one house burned, or one vessel wrecked, or one steamboat blown up, or one cow run over on the Western Railroad, or one mad dog killed, or one lot of grasshoppers in the winter, - we need never read of another. One is enough. If you are acquainted with the principle, what do you care for a myriad instances and applications?”
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

Hecks, going by ratings, Fox certainly does a much better job of marketing itself...lol

Not saying that makes them 'right' but they for the most part destroy MSNBC in every time slot at leat by the Jan 29th #s.

Well stressed, the 50+ demographic is growing steadily :)

@Stressed,
The connection between ratings and journalistic integrity/objectivity is not a clear one. I won't say it's an inverse relationship, but it would be hard to argue that there's a direct one either. But I'll agree with you that MSNBC hasn't done nearly as well as Fox in finding their demographic and selling their product.

hecks,

I was not trying to make that connection at all, but I agree.

The MSM is really just like talk radio, no better at all, maybe worse.

YJ, they clean their clocks it seems in EVERy group if I read the #s correct