And don't get up in arms, SC, it IS a very minor holiday, even Israelis admit it...

It's mainly celebrated today as a counter to Christmas, let's be honest.

Still a lot of fun things about it--latkes and dreidels, the wax flowing from the menorah and making a mess (as it always does with my family's menorah, lol) family, presents are always nice...and I'll admit, I don't mind a prayer that takes thanks for "enabling us to reach this season," not at all a bad thing to say and recite.

@abemacht:

The middle one and one for the first night...at least that's how my family does it...

Alright good. I was worried I had fucked up Hanukkah for a minute.

SURE, lets bust Christmas and Christians in the chops, but lets celebrate something from another religion. Hypocrisy at its finest. (no, not directed at you Obi)

Is that directed at me? I also have a nativity scene...

...I don't care if that was directed at me or not, what's your problem, Stressedlines?

EVERYTHING has to be about Christmas/Christians, even a thread about Hanukkah?

...I guess some people DO take that "War on Christmas" seriously:

Well, let me show you to the leader of the movement, Stressedlines, from a file photo:
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/61343_392216000859426_1125376793_n.jpg

Alright, let's get back to what's really important:

Does anyone know any good dreidel drinking games?

LOL, well, for gelt we used to play it two pieces for Hey, three for Shin, all for Gimel and none for Nun...

I guess you could translate that into shots, and either be miserable landing on Nun or wasted if you got Gimel all night? ;)

(I have a damn lab test this coming week and can't drink until I have it, so, sadly, no dreidel drinking games for me tonight...)

You spin it, and then you drink. Seems fairly self explanatory.

@Stressed, there are going to be threads about Christmas on Christmas, and nobody will complain about them, get off of your high horse. And whom were you talking to anyway? It's not obi or abge and nobody else is doing anything that can be even falsely called hypocrisy.

Stressed is an ass. Nuff said.

@Obi, it's the middle candle used to light the candle on the far right. So right on with what you said.

@ghug… "You spin it, and then you drink. Seems fairly self explanatory."

You missed a step. You spin it, eat some chocolate, and THEN you can drink.

I think Stressed was pointing out the hypocrisy of Obi and others who claim to be athiests and attack Christianity and an "imaginary sky wizard" yet turn aroimd amd celebrate a "miracle" which their religion of athiesm says couldn't have happened.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_atheism

I'm not even Jewish.

But *praying* to the imaginary sky wizard? That is what "I don't mind a prayer..." implies.

Draug, there are so many things wrong with that:
1. He said specifically that he was not talking to Obi.
2. He was criticizing those who celebrate Hanukkah, not the nonreligious who celebrate Christmas.
3. Christmas is more of a celebration of Roman pre-Christian beliefs than of Jesus's birth, as it was created specifically to align with Saturnalia and give Christians a chance to celebrate.
4. Christmas as it is today is much more of a consumerist holiday than it is a religious one.
5. Atheism is not a religion.
6. He still can't call it hypocrisy if he's criticizing people who haven't done anything yet.
7. Your inability to comprehend very basic English and to say anything at all accurate or relevant in your post constitutes another error in and of itself.

Thanks. Try again.

Any athiest who paerticipates in prayer is a hypocrite. Celebrating family and thanksgiving and what not, all for it, but the moment you utter a prayer to a god, you *are* a hypocrite.

@ghug - He said "SURE, lets bust Christmas and Christians in the chops, but lets celebrate something from another religion." That is clearly targeted at militant athiests. Now why he said it wasn't including Obi I don't know. Obi is as bad as any militant when it comes to attacking Christianity.

Massive red herring detected. Try arguing the issue at hand.

^
1. That, thank you...Jewish atheism,

2. I say RIGHT IN THE DESCRIPTION that the whole holiday of Hanukkah is silly, don't I?

I'm not holding a double standard here...virgin birth is silly, as is celebrating an incident where oil burned for eight days.

The point is--

2,000 years and a hell of a lot of marketing later, they make for fun holidays and traditions...except when people claim there's a "War on Christmas" every time someone says "Happy Holidays" or ask a Menorah to be placed beside a Christmas tree or whatever.

As is consistent with my stance--

I think you can separate from many aspects of culture an element which is secular and preserve and celebrate THAT, which is my stance here:

The same way I don't think there's actually a God to whom I must atone for sins, yet a day of atonement and reflection (Yon Kippur) IS a pretty good idea, I don't think a "miracle" involving long-lasting oil is really miraculous (if it happened at all) but still, what comes from it--grandmothers passing on latke recipes, dreidel games, gelt, good times shared, and it's no Christmas tree, but a fully-lit menorah on Day Eight DOES have a very special look to it, I think--in a secular sense here IS worth something and is worth saving, preserving, and celebrating in that sense.

And to cap all that off--

The same way Richard Dawkins says he actually likes some Christmas carols...

As stated, I don't believe in a God, but I have no problem saying a prayer with the family that's focused on us having been "enabled to reach this season," it's nice harmless something to say a few times a year come December--I don't think there's a God listening, but it's not a harmful, malicious invocation, so I take no issue with it at all.

And yes, atheism is a religion in as much as it is a specific set of beliefs. Those beliefs being the lack of existence of a god. To deny the existence of something without proof it doesn't exist is to have a belief system. A religion is a set of beliefs. Period.

^That was directed at your post about prayer.

Draug, you basically just accepted that every one of the criticisms I just listed was valid. I have no doubt that it was directed at militant atheists, but he was very clearly criticizing them (not including myself here because I have no issue with Christmas) for being OK with holidays other than Christmas.

I'm feeling like Draug and SD are equally butthurt due to the lack of gifts on their end :(

What started out as a celebratory thread turns into an anti-religion or an anti-atheism thread, how surprising.

Can't we, for once, give the benefit of the doubt that it's not an anti-anything thread? :)
It is okay to participate in religious holidays without being religious yourself.

@Obi - I only take exception to you saying a prayer. Who the fuck are you praying to?

@bo - My family units are half Jewish. I celebrate hanakuh with my inlaws and they celebrate Christmas with me. Epic. Fucking. Fail.

@Draugnar - Who the fuck are you to criticize anyone's beliefs for any reason?

"And yes, atheism is a religion in as much as it is a specific set of beliefs. Those beliefs being the lack of existence of a god. To deny the existence of something without proof it doesn't exist is to have a belief system. A religion is a set of beliefs. Period."

This a particularly stupid thing to say. Not believing in something is different that believing something doesn't exist and you know it.

I don't think not knowing about a 40-some year old man in Cincinnati's religious personal life is an epic fucking fail, but some stalkers/child molesters have obviously got better tools for finding out about people than I do.

No, Draug, atheism is the lack of a religion. It is a belief in logical and founded arguments with empirical backing. Religion is a belief system based on faith, defined by Merriam-Webster as "the service and worship of God or the supernatural." You can't call disbelief in an unproven and unfounded conjecture a religion.