Somebody's discovered psychoactive disassociatives.

I'll take...

Myself as an adamant and vocal Christian rather than an adamant, vocal anti-theist.

(And I do mean Christian, not Jew...if I'm switching, may as well switch all the way, after all, part of how I came to atheism was via atheistic/agnostic Jews and the fact that I simply cannot reconcile the idea of a just God with the Holocaust, and as I've said before, as there ARE Jewish Atheists, I don't think Jewishness is irreconcilable with atheism or agnosticism--again, Jewishness, yes, Judaism, no, as that's the religion by itself--whereas "Christian Atheist" IS more a contradiction in terms, it seems, you can't be both...and anyway, I couldn't picture myself getting fired up about defending and promoting Judaism the way Evangelical Christians do...radical Orthodox Judaism aside, Judaism seems the most "mellow" of the three Abrahamic religions, at least in its current form and if you're not Orthodox...maybe it comes from not having a state until recently and not having a messiah yet come to rival another religion's messiah, but I digress.)

What would I be doing?

Probably still majoring in English...but double-majoring in Religious Studies as well, as opposed to minoring in Political Science...and I'd probably go to Church, I suppose...and read a lot more religious authors and a lot less atheistic authors...CERTAINLY I'd be no fan of Nietzsche, Hume, or Hitchens, or many atheistic authors...I probably wouldn't want to be a writer, but a speaker, probably a big-time preacher, which would really take a load off my mind about how I'm ever going to make a living, it'd be so much easier if I could just preach, I'm a good public speaker and love to do it, and of course I already internalize and quote books--though now it'd be Scripture and not Shakespeare, lol--so I'd be the kind of people that Hitchens always debated against and that you see on TBN and such (anyone else watch that? I'll always turn to those religious stations late at night if absolutely nothing else is on or I'm killing time before I start a DVD, it just fascinates me how these people say what they say with such conviction...I don't agree at all, and often I'm taken aback by just what they DO get away with saying, but still, since I never DID go to Temple when I was religiously-Jewish, and obviously never Church, it's interesting to see what that's like for people...I'd never go myself, I know myself too well, I'd want to argue the whole time with the pastor or preacher and anything I'd say would offend him and his group and they'd likely offend me...and I'm find debating in the public sphere, but I don't want to intrude on people's private space and time and spoil there private enjoyment there, after all, I wouldn't like it if someone burst into an English class of mine to say why all literature is stupid or why they think D.H. Lawrence is the work of the Devil or anything...)

What would I be like, I think?

I think I'd probably be a lot more kind-hearted and empathetic in some ways and a lot less tolerant in others, and less analytical as well as less rude, or caring if I was blunt or rude with strangers, as I'd fear Divine retribution, I suppose...

I think I'd be a lot less conceited and arrogant but far more full of myself, if that makes sense...I'd probably be humbled or scared or awed into thinking less of myself and of the contributions of human beings, and so probably not take as many chances and be as brazen and self-sure as I often am, but if I always thought God and Jesus were on my side and I was not only right but defending something Divine and holy...I'd probably end up viewing myself as righteous by extension and always in the right, and be more insistent and rather than arrogant, and I don't think I'd like people who disagreed with me much, whereas I love people that disagree with me here. I'd also probably be more of a joiner and a group person, I think, if 'd grown up going to Church with Bible Study and all, whereas I'm not at all a joiner and an odd mix of extroversion and anti-sociality now...I'll talk to anyone, but I like to find the most secluded place I can for breaks during class and I stay by myself as much as possible, and I don't count many as real friends, and I dislike most groups intensely, or even the idea of groups and the people in them.

(So Putin, we'd still be the best of buddies!)

None of my friends that are atheists would be my friends...we'd just never have met, half of them I met while they or I were having a debate on theism/atheism, or met and we bonded over that, or it gave us the chance to meet, and so on...

And those are most of the good friends I have right now, I have friends that ARE strongly theist--for some perverse reason, my Jewish Atheist self seems to run into a lot of Catholic friends for a double dose of irony--and I suppose I'd probably make a larger circle of friends for myself, but not give them all as much care and attention as I do the few good friends I have now, I guess I'd be spread thinner and amongst more people that way.

Aaaaaand I hate just about ALL of those characteristics to some degree or another, hence the reason why I'm not like that...? LOL

^Yes. That was long. If I were Christian-me...

It wouldn't be any shorter--some things are just constant. ;)

"What on earth are you talking about?"

Imagine if you were an ardent capitalist Republican, Putin.

THAT is what I mean, flip a value set completely for you and see what you'd turn out as.

@obi, If you're switching all the way, Muslims are more intense and strict than Christians. I am not stereotyping. I have some tremendous Muslim colleagues who, bless their hearts, can't do anything fun (like drink or have sex or shake hands in a professional capacity with the opposite sex or marry outside the faith). Granted, there are "bad" Muslims as there are "bad" Christians and Jews, but I presume you're looking to switch to a model follower. Can you redo the mirror-obi as a Muslim instead of as a Christian?

Its an opportunity for Obi to jump up on a soapbox and proclaim his "beliefs"

"I'd never go myself, I know myself too well, I'd want to argue the whole time with the pastor or preacher and anything I'd say would offend him and his group and they'd likely offend me"

Someone has obviously never interacted with a rabbi. I love how Obi thinks he can offend a religious professional by expressing his disbelief in religion. Like those fragile minds have never had that discussion before.

I could never see myself being pro-capitalism. As a hypothetical anti-me I'd be a traditionalist conservative or nationalist. I'd argue that the pace of change is far too fast, and that capitalism is an agent of this hyper-paced change. Social values decay as a result. All institutions that keep human beings rooted get swept away by consumer culture and globalization. I'd probably see religion as culturally important as a preserver of traditional institutions, while remaining an agnostic - kind of like Charles Maurras.

I'd probably be crankier and borderline misanthropic. I'd be a ruralist who detested cities, perhaps romanticizing the US South. I'd read Maistre and von Haller rather than Marx & Lenin.

I'd probably have studied the classics or history rather than political science, being an antiquarian. I don't think I'd be married and I'd probably still be an academic as far as career-choice goes, although maybe a more career minded one than I am now.

All in all I don't think an anti-me would be pleasant.

@SC:

"Its an opportunity for Obi to jump up on a soapbox and proclaim his "beliefs"

I've said it before, I'll say it again--

If you don't like the thread or person--me--in question...

Then just ignore the thread rather than attempt to piss on said person and instead piss down the side of your pants, as it were, as you just try and badmouth someone.

"Someone has obviously never interacted with a rabbi."

Well, yeah--I SAID I never went to a Temple/Synagogue...and I don't exactly live in Jew Central out here in the AV, this is Super-Christian Land...

So, how was I being disingenuous?

"I love how Obi thinks he can offend a religious professional by expressing his disbelief in religion."

Where the fuck--in this thread--did I do or say anything to offend a religious "professional?"

"Like those fragile minds have never had that discussion before."

I referenced HITCHENS DEBATES, you blithering imbecile...

So I NATURALLY know these people debate and have had this dicussion, I NEVER SAID THEY DID NOT...

STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH...ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE SO BAD AT IT.

Just because I got you a little sore last time by daring to condemn your willingness to let innocent babies be slaughtered in the Israelite/Amalekite conflict is no reason to act up, now, there there...

^See, I WOULD say that religion would probably make me less of a bastard, but then, I read your religious posts, SC, and, well...

Santa always jumps at the chance to question Obi's Jewishness. Rather disgusting, really.

Mirror gramilaj is a fucking serious idealist, and jumped in front of a train at age 6 to prove it.

I think most people who take "a key, key value that makes you" and invert it are probbbbaly dead.

"Santa always jumps at the chance to question Obi's Jewishness. Rather disgusting, really. "

I didn't question anything, I just repeated what he already said.

"Someone has obviously never interacted with a rabbi. I love how Obi thinks he can offend a religious professional by expressing his disbelief in religion. Like those fragile minds have never had that discussion before."

Sorry, I said exactly NONE of that.

The closest is the fact I don't and haven't spoken to rabbis, and I've said that repeatedly and openly.

So you're misrepresenting and slandering me with words put in my mouth is more like it...

Not very becoming of a historian-to-be, I must say.

"
So, how was I being disingenuous?"

Who said you were being disingenuous, all I said was that it shows that you never interacted with a Rabbi, as you mention, you said in your earlier post, and I was commenting that your conception of what a rabbi does is way off. The fact that you actually think you can offend a reform (you call it temple so it def. was a reform shul your family belonged to) rabbi by not believing in God is ludicrous.

"Where the fuck--in this thread--did I do or say anything to offend a religious "professional?"

Jesus Christ, can you read? I was responding to this quote

"I'd never go myself, I know myself too well, I'd want to argue the whole time with the pastor or preacher and anything I'd say would offend him and his group and they'd likely offend me"

I was commenting that it was ludicrous that you would offend a religious professional in a theological discussion when what they do is have those discussion. Sure, if you are disrespectful perhaps, but not by bringing up doubts or your beliefs.

"I referenced HITCHENS DEBATES, you blithering imbecile...

So I NATURALLY know these people debate and have had this dicussion, I NEVER SAID THEY DID NOT...

STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH...ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE SO BAD AT IT."

Yet little obi would walk into a church/synagogue and automatically draw the fury of the congregational leader.

"
^See, I WOULD say that religion would probably make me less of a bastard, but then, I read your religious posts, SC, and, well... "

Hey if it made you less of an arrogant prick I'd say it would be a wash

"Just because I got you a little sore last time by daring to condemn your willingness to let innocent babies be slaughtered in the Israelite/Amalekite conflict is no reason to act up, now, there there..."

amusing, I didn't even give a fuck about that part of the debate which you will clearly see if you read it again (or for the first time probably). I was more upset at the part where you compulsively lied about your statements about slavery. It was you that burst every capillary in your fat head at the mention of a 3000 year old event that probably only happened in literature.

Me:

"love how Obi thinks he can offend a religious professional by expressing his disbelief in religion. Like those fragile minds have never had that discussion before"

Obi:

"Sorry, I said exactly NONE of that."

Obi Earlier:

"I'd never go myself, I know myself too well, I'd want to argue the whole time with the pastor or preacher and anything I'd say would offend him and his group and they'd likely offend me"

I'm not having another 6700 post fight with you, SC.

What you say of me is false--and the posts are there for others to read if they so wish to validate that claim.

That is the last I will say on the matter, other than, I must reiterate--

Get a life, one besides trolling people vindictively on WebDip, I mean, and advocating murder at the behest of voices in your head or written in ancient documents.

Now, kindly stop derailing my thread, and act your age.

Jesus Christ its written in black and white. What do I have to do to make a point and not have Obi deny it ever existed.

I'm not trolling ANYONE. I am making a point about something you said which I feel is wrong. And then I am responding to your denial that you said what is clearly posted above. I just can't understand it.

"Get a life, one besides trolling people vindictively on WebDip, I mean, and advocating murder at the behest of voices in your head or written in ancient documents."

I have made like 3 posts in the last 3 days while you have created like 5 fucking threads. Again I understand I touched a nerve when I showed you are a lousy liar but please...

^I rest my case.

You comment so rarely, and save it up to pester that special someone...



Well, I'm flattered, SC, I am, but there are far better, far more apt and less morally-bankrupt detractors towards me than you...

And I'm not a liar, you may disagree all you like, but I'm not.

And anyway--sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me...unless it's God's word telling you to slaughter me and my innocent family and friends and all the elderly and infant population in the area indiscriminately, of course...

But I suppose such voices in your head would just speak volumes about *your* "credibility."

Thank you for the interesting question Obi, and I am sorry that it got side-tracked.
I suppose if I became a Dawkinesque atheist I would not want to prefix it with Jewish, Christain- , Muslim or anything else. I would surely classify religion as the root of all evil. The use of a prefix would seem to me to be an acknowledgement that religion serves a useful/vital social function. A little along the lines of - “Without God all things are permitted.” Something I would hope, given my flip, that I would strongly object to. Unless of course I subscribed to the social-darwinist view that ''might is right'', I suppose that is another possibility.

I've stopped talking to my mirror self for a while now. He's an igonorant, selfish fucktard that sucks at sports and can't get girls. He's an embarrassment to the family.

Skipped through most of that stuff, mostly about religion, which bores the balls off of most of us (including girls). Here's the question which was asked:
"Imagine yourself with a key, KEY value or ideal that makes you YOU inverted.
What would you be doing right now? What would you be like, do you think?
How would friends/folks here react differently to you?
(Bonus points if you can say WHY you're not like that mirror self in real life) "
Key value: being a good guy. Inverted: badass. Why not? F*ck knows. Being a good guy is just setting yourself up to be used by the c*nts of the world, of which there are quite a few. Lost a lot through this sticking to principles. Too late to change now.
I'll do it on WebDip. All quail; here comes Badass Timur.

Obi, assuming you're only changing your belief system and not your basic personality and interests, I think you're pretty far off. Of course I only know you from this forum, but knowing what I do I think you'd be much more pleasant than you describe. Here's my take on a Christian Obi:

If you were a Christian I bet you would be an English major, but I think you'd still be a political science minor. You would want to be a writer - you might enjoy speaking occasionally, and you would definitely like teaching teenagers in Sunday School because you would make them think a ton about what they believe instead of just passively assenting to what they've been taught - not that you wouldn't believe it, but you would demand that they owned it themselves. You might toy with the idea of being a preacher, but you would loathe the idea of being part of a megachurch. Your pastor would tell you kindly that being a preacher is actually not a very smart career path, and that most of the work involves spending time with people's messy lives, and you'd realize that you're too introverted and a too impatient with people who can't figure basic things out. You'd be part of a kind of artsy little congregation that went a bit out of its way to avoid being slick, and was really open to people who wear socks with their sandals and lots of earthtones and don't shave. Probably homeless people would wander into your church sometimes and you'd give them coffee and donuts and find out that they used to teach English somewhere before they became mentally ill, and you'd talk about Shakespeare with them and wish you could do more to help them.

You definitely would NOT watch TBN....you'd hate it just as much, but for different reasons. You'd be hopping mad at how they distort what you think is the true message of the Bible, which you would probably take to be a huge dose of loving people and being humble about talking about God, and it would make you sick to see people all hyped up about prosperity or endtimes stuff. You'd get way more upset at religious people who get it wrong than you would with atheists, who you would find very engaging even as you disagreed with them. You'd go to peace vigils and have a hard time with the Old Testament, but you would continue to read it because Jesus took it seriously and you'd want to know what it was that he was so keen on.

If I were *still* a proud petit-bourgeois Republican, I'd probably have to cover up all of the cognitive dissonance with Guns and American Flags and Traditional Christian Values.

I would squat in a dilapidated house selling soap made from fat stolen from dumpsters and splicing porn into movie reels for a living.

The First Rule of Fight Club references is...you do not make Fight Club references!

:p

(Though that reminds me...what ever happened to Tyler Durden, the player here?)

Maybe Tyler Durden was Sandgoose's multi........

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