uh-oh we started 2 threads. Combine?

mine has the link in the OP, c/p there :)

His spelled it right though. Just saying.

Oops.lol. Okay ill c/p

WTA Full-Press, 33 bet
Country: Austria
Result: 3 way draw F/A/R

Title: My first Key Lepanto Relationship, and Break-up.

1901:
When I first see that the game has started I already have press from Russia, Turkey, and Italy. Uh oh, I'm late....I hope nobody has made plans yet.

Turkey has proposed that we work together on Russia and alluded to support to Rumania in 1901 and a split of the balkans between us. In response I tell him that I'm interested and request an opening to Armenia to show he means it.

Russia was quick and cold and to the point. "Moving to take Rumania this year. Will bounce galicia. Lets see where we all stand". Whoa, buddy not even a hint schmoozing in there. I am immediately turned off and fear there will be no negotiating with this one. I request a dmz of galicia just to see how he will take it and if I can get some conversation going, he declines saying its too high risk.

I exchange pleasantries with Germany (erist) who is an excellent communicator and I like the cut of his jib even if we cant work together immediately. I have some small chatter with France and England but nothing of substance.

Italy has opened up dialogue with a well crafted message requesting a lepanto alliance and I feel comfortable immediately with him. I counter propose that we try something different like a blue water lepanto. This discussion evolves into a suggestion of a key lepanto, which I have never tried but have read the general rule for Austria is never, never, never do a key lepanto. lol. But the more we hash out the details the more comfortable I become with the idea, b/c like me Italy seems legitimately excited to give this a try and I feel he wants to see it go through more than he wants to stab an Austrian.

Looking back through my press Italy and I burned up the press cables in the pre-season, there is a book full of discussion about this. I decide that I will go "all-in" on this alliance and enter Budapest support Vienna to Galicia and Trieste to Greece. I also go back and really start selling my alliance with Turkey hard to convince him I will support him to Rumania if he opens to Armenia. Italy would open to Trieste and Venice to really sell the stab along with Ionian.

Spring moves register and they are better than I could have hoped for. Turkey did open to Armenia and I am in Galicia, all went as planned.

It's time to play the victim. I think everyone on the board but Italy got a message about how I was fucked and any tips/help etc. If I remember correctly only Germany might have saw through it, or at least suggested I try and talk italy into a Key.

Turkey took the bait hook line and sinker. I told him I would go for Greece, cover vienna and serbia to try and discourage him from potentially bouncing me from greece or italy from serbia and requested he keep Russia to no builds by bouncing Rumania and cutting sevestapol. Meanwhile Italy and I set our next moves to put him in Aegean/serbia and for me to take Rumania.

Fall moves come in and everything has happened exactly as planned. :) Well, except I had wanted a block on sweden, but as far as the south it couldn't be better.

1902:
Boy, I really used up some paper on that first year, other years were not as exciting. This year my alliance was set, there was no deception to play with and my enemies were set as well.

We put Serbia into Bulgaria with ease and I follow into Serbia as planned. I moved out of Rumania to Galicia since it was going to be lost anyways, I now had a 50:50 guess on Warsaw or Rumania. At this point I can be guaranteed Rumania with support from bulgaria if it is not cut, but Italy tells me he can't do that b/c he has good relations with Russia. This was a major concern as I saw the potential of being sandwiched between them. I pleaded my case but wasn't getting anywhere and did not want to do anything too argumentative while in this precarious position, since I still had a 50:50 and I did expect that bulgaria would get cut I just went for it. And failed...which would have succeeded with Italian support. Although Italy was apologetic and realized after he needed to be "all-in" with me as well.

1903:
Italy earned another build and we discussed what it would be and I pitched hard for another fleet and the potential to crush Turkey and finish him off. Really I just didn't want an army at Venice while I was up holding back Russia. It was in this year that Germany pulled himself into our arrangement to work a CPA, we all recognized that France and Russia were the big dogs at the moment and we were all caught in the middle.

In the spring Italy supports me to Rumania, and Russia also has Germany at Prussia and closing in on his Scandanavian holdings. At this point Germany is very worried about his open back door with France and proposes that I give up the build I have coming to Italy by giving Greece away in order to let him build a fleet to go west with. This just didnt make any sense to me and after lots of discussion I decided I would not do it, and Italy would continue with the planned convoy to syria.

1904:
I got my build and the only place to put it was Trieste. Italy requested a deferral, but I assured him that everything would be okay and we had come this far together...dirty I know.

I had really never intended to stab him at this time. But it was sooo wide open and his arsenal in the south was concerning, especially combined with the fact that he had good enough relations with France to assist in persuading him to give up belgium last fall to make him more comfortable. He had such a dominant position over Turkey that he would likely get 2 gains this year while I would likely get none. From there it was either me or France who would be in the crosshairs.

I started to discuss an R/A with Russia. I would take bulgaria with Rumania and leave Rumania for him with a promised hold in the fall, I would also vacate galicia to boh, vienna to tyrolia and move to the open venice from trieste . He would protect moscow and go to silesia. Germany had telegraphed his move to me of going to St. Pete so I knew exactly what Russia had to play in order to lose no units.

The spring was crazy, I made my moves in full faith of Russia and he delivered flawlessly. Italy had not moved to protect a potential loss of Rome and Venice in one year so I walked right in. I also supported Russia to Munich and he actually ended up with a build from his dire position. The hate mail from Germany and Italy poured in...more on this later.

1905:
France moves south. This was not good, I didn't have time to make the progress I needed to rule the med, or at least be able to stalemate ionian. I try relentlessly to get him to do anything else and buy some time to get a better position but hes coming. Also Germany is falling fast...too fast. I've started the very beginning of a French solo run.

1906:
I take naples and Constantinople with the help of Russia. But I lose trieste to a rogue italian fleet...major bummer. I had left it open on purpose hoping I could get another fleet build. France is in piedmont, west med, and GoL. Tunis is basically his for the taking and I'm worried he could get his hands on naples/rome eventually. Up north he is making quick work of Germany and he has captured Munich from Russia and I...I'm very concerned about a solo here once he gets the easy centers at scandanavia.

1907:
Its now that I really actually need Italy to complete a stalemate. He still has two fleets and I propose how he could be the piece that holds Tunis and stops this solo. It was really his only option to take my offer or try and throw the game out of spite, but I truly intended to include him. Our moves work excellently...too excellently.

France seeing the cooperation messages me good work, lets eliminate germany at least, and draw. Very quick to give up I thought. At this point it seems safe to take him out and France enters all hold orders to help get the draw done.

1908:
Finish off Italy and draw.


Final thoughts:

I mentioned the understandable hate mail from Germany/Italy. They basically declared that I would be crushed between R/F...which never occured. However, looking back that stab got me a solid 3 way but it was made with the intention to try and solo and I it did not even give me a shot at that. The support to munich may have been too much, but at the time I was worried about German vengence. As it turned out Germany was crushed and easily rolled over by France causing him to grow faster than I was able to claim my new territory. With the 2 home center snatch I had envisioned myself being able to build at least 3 fleets and stalemate any French invasion at Tunis, while I felt I could then work on Russia to make a shot at 18. It did not work that way at all.

Now I'm not sure status quo would have worked for a solo shot either. It would have depended on whether Italy would have stabbed me or moved his units west far enough that I could stab him, which would have been very difficult with no fleets. Germany and France would have clashed and possibly deadlocked. Thinking back over it, I don't really see a solo shot in here at all.

My first Key Lepanto and it was a success! Great working with you early on Avif.

Josunice, you were an excellent ally as well and we worked flawlessly to stuff France.

Erist, thanks for setting this up, the grey press was an interesting idea. It was more amusing that impactful on the game, but i just couldn't think of a good way to use it to my advantage.

Stackelberg - I was surprised at the weak solo shot. Thought you would have pressed harder and used Italy/Germany to your advantage more, but maybe you were tired of the game at that point.

Good game all!

Gen Lee - I don't believe France ever had a real shot at a solo, and don't understand why he didn't at least make a run at it, though. Worked for me, going from dead Russia to a middle man controlling Berlin and Munich towards a 3 way draw...

Your alliance with Italy doomed you to no chance of a solo -- while allied with him, you can't build fleets, and by the time you stab him, you don't have the time to build fleets...

I would have had a good shot of wiping you out in the end, but you were the reason I was there at all, and 1908 felt like 1921 with the two day turns and the talking... time to call it a day...

Your comment on my curt opening negatively affecting our relationship, though surprises me... Sometimes I think we all chat too much in 1901... You Austria, Me Russia -- Not likely Friends -- Let's bounce Galicia and see where that goes... seemed reasonable to me...

I am beginning to believe that Press leads to Craziness and more chat than necessary... I'm sticking to GB for now!

Here's my EOG:

1901:
I go into this game thinking I'll try a Sealion if Germany is game. I really like the alliance and I hadn't done it before as France, and my initial press leaves me feeling a lot better about Germany than England. I feel a little guilty about misleading England with a DMZ in the channel in 1901 - there's got to be a better way, I'm thinking, but you live and learn. Germany and I end up revising our plans a bit but the year ends with me in a great position against England and with no other enemies. Germany comes through beautifully as an ally, and erist turned out to be a great ally for most of the game.

I will say that I saw through the key lepanto right away... Austria sent me some messages that seemed really disingenuous about being angry at Italy. I didn't pay much attention to anyone in the east except for Russia at the start of the game and that was probably an error. I'm pretty sure I even told Austria something like, "well maybe italy will move to Serbia," as if I was just thinking about it and not suspecting a key...

In terms of the grey press, I didn't really have any idea what to do, so I decide to convince everyone I'm England. Maybe that can be used to my advantage later (largely in making Germany trust France, who I actually am). I'm also not very creative so I used a morse code translator to make my mundane press more mysterious.

1902:
So around this time I remember being extremely amused by Russia's messages, but looking back, there wasn't much substance to them. Russia takes Norway, which is great for me, and Germany decides to move east instead of against England to keep people guessing. The ploy works perfectly, almost a little too perfectly - everyone starts messaging me that Germany is a loose cannon, what's this Germany doing, etc.

So Russia ends up giving England Sweden after he takes Norway. I noticed that in F01, England had self-bounced in London to avoid a convoy.

I took a gamble that he would do the same in Wales this year to avoid my successful convoy, and go ahead and support London to Wales. 'lo and behold, it works! I sneak into London. Favourite move of the game for me.

Germany is probably just stroking my ego at this point, but he tells me I look like a genius. And then he asks to borrow Belgium.

1903:
I start talking to russia a bit more and he lobbies that I give Germany what he wants. Not what I was expecting to hear, but okay. I've got an eye on the east, but again, not paying enough attention to what's happening. I know the key is devouring turkey but that's it.

So England's demise accelerates and Germany trusts me a little more as I give him Belgium. Not much excitement for me this year, although probably more press than most because of the whole Belgium deal, which I always was going to go along with anyway.

I think at this point I'm still using my grey press to make people think i'm England sending messages that might theoretically help me as France, but it seems that was relatively ineffective.

1904:
This is the year of stabbing. Brutal, fatal stabbing. I stab Germany, and Austria stabs Italy, who, miraculously, has absolutely no units on the boot.

Russia wants me to stab Germany. Sort of. He's not very straightforward about it, and I can't really tell who's idea it is. He does, however, believe that it will be tough fight if I do. I almost forgot to mention this, but I do stab Germany, and it's a really slow stab at first. I figure he will eventually if I don't. We're both out of position, but I'm confident I can get in position faster than he can, and I'm confident it will benefit me a lot more than Russia.

I'm really curious about what happened between England and Russia this year. England was on his last legs, and for some reason, Russia got England to help him against Germany, even though that largely benefitted me, the primary architect of England's demise. I get into Edi uncontested, and England is seemingly fine living temporarily of off Russia's charity slowing down Germany in the east. Strange combination of moves that made the north a lot easier for me than it had to be.

Other pivotal point this year: Austria and I support Russia into Munich in the fall. In retrospect, big mistake. I'm desperate for German disbands so I'm totally in favour of it at the time, but not being be able to get armies past Munich makes things a lot more difficult for me later on. I should have moved to ruhr, especially since Germany didn't see the move coming and A/R didn't my help to take it. This is, IMO, my first big mistake.

1905:
I don't know what Russia is thinking now, but I start to move south. My only shot at winning is distrust between Russia and Austria, enough to get them to fight, as best I can see it. I start messaging Russia ominously about an Austrian solo, a coming deluge of Austrian fleets, etc., but I don't think he ever buys it. I'm pretty sure this whole time he and Austria think I just might win. At the very least, I don't honestly believe Austria ever has a shot at getting in position to win, and every shot I had, I blow up pretty spectacularly. I'm just trying to keep Russia from working with Austria so i still have a shot.

My other big mistake this game: Tunis is completely undefended and instead I move to GoL. Not even Tyrhhenian, which would have been more useful later. I'm trying to push an army into Piedmont, but Tunis would have been so much better. Italy is actually pretty persuasive, enough that I want to keep him alive and see how much I can get his two fleets in the south to help me, which is probably the main reason I don't take Tunis. But not taking Tunis was bad. I would have gotten into the Ionian next year if I took tunis.

Austria is getting pretty annoyed with me at this point, and I don't blame him. But there I am. Russia and I continue cooperating seamlessly in the north, and Russia was right about one thing - I was out of position when I stabbed Germany, which didn't delay Germany's demise by much (aside from a lone unit Russia kept alive for a while).

1906:
I take Kiel instead of Munich, mainly because it never occurs to me I should take Munich from russia. Italy rightly points out to me that taking Kiel instead of Munich was a mistake. Again. I do have a fleet in Kiel, so potentially not all is lost, and I end up getting into Munich anyway. Maybe things are looking up!

1907:
Alas, I no longer have any hope. I have lost Italy's support, and I can tell I can't hold Munich or secure any centers in Italy. A northern push could be useful, but there Russia is with a build in Stp(nc). I give a shot at Rome, but I know I'm not staying there long.

1908:
Pretty resigned to the draw now. Works out really quickly. Maybe I should have tried to push in the north, I might have gotten somewhere in Scandinavia. Who knows. We'll never find out, but I have my doubts.

-----

If it's not clear by now, I am pretty sure I should have been able to figure out how to win this game. I was a bit distracted, I admit - I quit my job a little over a month ago, and started a new (and better) job three weeks ago, so post-1904 or so, I didn't have much time for the game. That resulted in mistakes like taking Kiel instead of Munich because I didn't spend much time looking at the map and planning beyond the next turn. I don't know if anyone in the game noticed, but my press probably dried up for a little while there, particularly around two weeks ago, because of work.

I'm not totally sure what I could have or should have done differently at the end - taking Tunis and Munich earlier would obviously have made a big difference, but given those mistakes in the bank, I think the 3-way draw was the best I could do.

All said, really fun game, and the players I dealt with the most - erist and AviF mainly, but also josunice and Gen Lee - were fantastic. The grey press was a cool idea but I had no idea how to use or how to think about everyone else's messages...with some tweaks it could be really cool though.

@joaunice

I disagree, the north was never under control until France stopped pursuing it and if Italy would have supported France more he could have got Naples or Rome and he held Munich at one point. You couldn't have moved on me without throwing the solo so I wasn't worried about that.

As for opening press, I would have been open to an RA from the start if talks of dozing Galicia seemed possible. But your press and apprehension at discussion made me think a juggernaut was a done deal and you didn't want to waste time beating around the bush talking with Austria, that and Italy leaking that you said Austria is no friend of mine made it a done deal I would oppose you early.

Around 1904 or 1905, I made a conscious decision to let the north wait, thinking Scandinavia would be easier later, but the Ionian would only be within reach for a year or two. Not sure how things would have gone if I'd put everything into getting nwy, swe, and StP first.

Gen Lee - thanks for the feedback on press... I'm on my cell often and with private equity real estate valuations and audits this time of year, not much time to chat...

Stack - I don't think a solo was ever in order for you unless Italy were to work for you to his own demise. You were spread too thin to press the north and south.

To your question on England play, he can speak for himself, but I believe he saw the end was only a matter of time, and felt totally betrayed by you (France) and Germany. I asked if he would at least help me stick it to Germany and in helping me, keeping you from taking over too quickly. I was shocked to be redeemed in this game, but I won't give it back!

Okay, so grey press didn't work. I still think letters from Switzerland or something could be great fun. But it turned out to be a high quality game with high quality players, so no harm no foul. Try to remember here, in too many other games at the moment, so forget some of the nuances of this one.

Another game where I totally misread the timing of a stab. I knew it was coming eventually from France, but I really really did not expect it when it came.

Just brief off the top of my memory. Everyone's press was generally good. Nothing against England, just think France is generally a bit less dangerous of an ally (ha!) and our communication was good and he seemed up for an alliance that lasted at least until the midgame.

By 1903 I figure I'm in good position, I have 7 supply centers and an army in Livonia and am feeling confident I can break out to the east. England seems to be about finished and I think I have France convinced to head south to Italy. Hell, he just gave me Belgium to help in the fight against the Russians.

Meanwhile, I'm getting along good with Italy as well, so I figure if worse comes to worst we can both defend against France together. Austria seems to be game with getting supply centers from Russia while the getting is good, and I figure no sane Austria would rather have a strong Russia than a strong Germany, so I figure things are good.

Plan at this point is to capitalize on the fact that the west is finishing up before the east, which is a bit of a clusterfuck. Make gains against Russia, do some misdirection and maybe some gentle wishy washyness between Italy and France but make sure I'm expanding faster than both of them and, depending on how things are going, either stab France and move towards a G/I/A threeway or keep rolling with France towards a G/F/A three-way, with hopes of someone making a big mistake and an opening for a solo emerges.

Italy and I have a little discussion about Austria's Trieste build, and he decides to trust him and not demand it be delayed.

Then, ugh, nothing like getting stabbed by 3 countries at once to realize everyone had been planning behind your back.

At this point, it was clear I would fall quick and Italy wouldn't be far behind. I really thought our only hope was to convince Austria he would be out of the game (and both move against him) if he stayed with his new Russian and French allies, but he wasn't going to be swayed at all. Harder to convince experienced players that other experienced players will try for a 2 way draw.

I thought it was shaping up for a French solo run, but didn't happen. Austria generously told me to hang out in Berlin and hope that France and Russia with both have to hold me to keep the other one from getting the supply center, but France never held :P

[and all I'll say is that I learned my lesson and was the first to stab successfully in a number of ongoing games]

BTW: I didn't really suspect a key lepanto, though I mentioned to France I think that it might be one, but I pushed hard for one after the move to Trieste. I hate when Italy and Austria fight early, I really wanted both of them alive, especially Austria. I sent about 80 messages to Italy telling him that he would be dead if he continued, to just do a Key, come back to the light side, move against Turkey, etc. With Austria I commiserated and basically said, I'll do everything I can to bring back Italy to your side. At the time I didn't know whether I had helped convince Italy to change course or whether it had been planned all along, but i think Italy told me later that it had been planned from the beginning.

Country: Italy

Firstly, I’d like to thank you all for the good game. Despite the bad ending (from my perspective at least), I really found it quite enjoyable. Secondly, here is my EOG.

Spring 1901

For 1901 since I had so much more press here than any other year I think I will split the discussion of my opening press up by country.

Russia
Russia really didn’t seem all that talkative. They opened with a pretty straight forward message stating that they were going to fight Austria and not much after that.

Turkey
Turkey also opened with a comment about how we could work together against Austria. At this point I was worried about a potential Juggernaut so I worked hard trying to get Turkey to move against Russia. This effort was increased even more once I started discussing the plan of a key lepanto with Austria. In the end I convinced Turkey that I’d move against Austria if they agreed to move into Armenia. Honestly I did not expect that move to actually happen since I was suspicious of the Juggernaut but I guess I was wrong there.

Germany
Germany and I exchange pleasantries and the main point made in terms of the game is that they did not want me to move against Austria. This was a point brought up over the next couple years and was a tricky situation for me to manage. I didn’t want to show unfriendliness towards Germany by completely ignoring their advice but at the same time had the plan of the key lepanto in mind and couldn’t show my friendliness towards Austria so I made some implications about not getting along with Austria personally.

England and France
Basic pleasantries are sent to each other but nothing really of note. The most interesting thing here was probably me mentioning to England that he should talk to Turkey about fighting Russia.

Austria
This is the meat of my communications. I started off by doing what I’d almost always do as Italy and offer Austria a lepanto but things were made interesting when Austria came backing suggesting we try something different with a blue water lepanto. I was not to keen on this idea since it seemed like it could be a way for Austria to try stab me so I half jokingly suggested a key lepanto. After I somehow convinced Austria to go along we discussed everything in much detail from specific moves to how we would portray this stab in Autumn 01. The more I thought about it the more the idea of actually performing a successful key lepanto seemed like an exciting fun idea.

What Happened?
It was perfect on so many levels. Austria played along, Russia opened south leaving themself open to a potential northern attack, France moved to the channel so I would not have to worry about them, England opened north so that could threaten Russia, and most of all Turkey did what I thought was highly unlikely by moving to Armenia thus cementing my desire to follow through. If Turkey had opened to Con and France to MAO then I may have been very tempted to stab Austria (I mean, I could have had a three build Italy in 01) but everything was going too perfectly to not follow through.

Autumn 01
This turn’s press is all about the lies. Austria does most of the work here and everyone seems to buy it except maybe Germany. Again Germany tried talking me into working with Austria but I had to again make implications that Austria and I just didn’t get along. The nice thing here is that both Turkey and Russia seemed to think that I was working with them. I continued that myth and let others talk to Germany in order to try convince them to bounce Russia in Sweden in order to get a 0 build Russia. Again just about everything worked as planned except for Germany letting Russia into Sweden but I was pretty happy at this point. My relationship with Austria I thought was pretty cemented, after going through such a trust building exercise I was not really worried about a stab, Germany and France were very friendly towards me, and I think I had managed to convince Russia to have a decent relationship with me since I was going to focus on Turkey.

1902
Not much of note happens in 1902. Everything kind of just went along and I kept up talks with most of the other countries. The only real conflict here was that I was trying to keep a friendly relationship with Russia in order to have that source of information and I fully expected Turkey to tap Bulgaria so I convinced Austria that I shouldn’t give him support into Rumania but that wasn’t the best decision.

1903
This year Germany and I really start talking about the long term possibility of a CPA alliance. I like the sounds of this mostly since Germany and Austria have probably been the two players I’ve gotten along best with (though I did get along pretty well with France). The two ideas that Germany and I try to help each other with is the idea of me getting Greece temporarily and him getting Belgium permanently. The idea behind the Belgium plan was firstly it would give him an upper hand over France but also I was worried that France would stab me after finishing off England and I did not want that to happen, I wanted to stab France first. I did not really except France to agree but they did which was a nice surprise. My plan to take Greece was not a plan to stab Austria but rather a plan to finish Turkey off quickly so that I could move on to France. I did not want Austria to have the army build in Trieste and a build in Naples could have be very useful. Firstly it would have allowed me to stab France which would have helped me grow or alternatively use it to help fight Turkey and grow in the east quicker. However, Austria declined that proposal so I just convoyed into Syria. During the build phase Germany kind of warns me not to let Austria build in Trieste but I think I was blinded by the success of our alliance so Austria convinces me he won’t stab me.

1904
Fuck

1905 – 06
Germany and I have some grand aspirations of vengeance but Germany falls much faster than I expected so my focus turns to trying to help France solo. My hope was that I would get a chance to sneak into a draw with a scared Austria Russia protecting me but I would have been happy with a French solo

1907
I discuss with Autria the idea of me being part of the draw. I did not really expect to be kept in it but I thought it was my only opportunity and I’d be silly not to take the chance.

Final Thoughts
Clearly for me the big thing this game was my alliance with Gen. Lee as Austria. Interestingly the last game I played was the SOW game where I was Turkey and Gen Lee was Russia. In that game we had what I thought was a strong alliance but in his EOG he talked about how he was always so close to stabbing me. As soon as I found out Gen. Lee was Austria I started drawing connections and finding it interesting. I probably should have defended myself better and was probably looking too much for the draw and assuming Austria was looking for the draw. Oh well, what’s done is done. I completed a Key Lepanto which feels nice even if it didn’t work out in the end.

The other final thought of note was just looking at the quantity of press I had. In total number of messages it is significantly lower than my past few games. I do not know if I lost because of the fact I had less press or had less press because after 1903 I had nothing really to do. Anyways, I hope this EOG was interesting.

Fascinating... I had never seen a italian and austrian alliance like that. I will admit I didn't see it coming, but press can bring out the crazies... Still wish turkey had seen my note to get the Bulgaria disband, but it was fun all... Erist, you too took my curt notes the wrong way... I need to avoid FUUUUULLLL press games it seems...

In long phase games, I am certainly more likely to work with someone who talks a lot and sounds nice, but I don't think it affected my decisions here. Germany pretty much has to break out to the east or the west, and I had a strong alliance with France. And I did give you Sweden after all ;)

--

I think the reason for liking people that talk more is not just human (though it is that, a nice rapport goes a long way to not wanting to screw the other person over) but also because more talking = more inadvertent information leaks = more chance of telling me something I need to know or telegraphing their intentions or putting my guard up with sudden bits of dishonesty, etc.

Honestly, I have to work on the reverse for my full press games. I tend to talk too much, tell everyone too much, and then all that information comes back and bites me in the ass (as it did with Austria telling you about my StP move, etc)

For me I like allying with people who talk a lot because I like talking a lot. This helps me in a few ways. Firstly, if my ally isn't talking much I start getting nervous. Secondly, I am sometimes a bit weak in terms of strategy so when it comes to the late game, I like having an ally who I can discuss moves with. And lastly, I just find it more fun because the talking and diplomacizing is one of the main reasons I play this game.

I guess my problem is (1) lots of stolen minutes on the cell phone where typing lots of words on a blackberry is not appealing, and (2) I tend towards talking too much, so tend to over compensate sometimes...

However, have believed there is too much jibba jabba in the first year -- maybe I need to change that thought... I do enjoy quick quips, though...

I don't think I've played many games where the direction of the board reversed as quickly as it did in S04 in this game. That was a pretty intense turn.

It's hard, everyone knows 90% of what is being said in the first year is bullshit and not everyone is going to be your friend. On the other hand, picking correct initial alliances is a huge thing (or more precisely, not being left as the odd person out) so all that initial talking helps make those decisions easier. I like to think one of the reasons I almost never end up on the wrong side of a 2-on-1 in the very early game is because I talk to everyone and basically get a relationship going with someone who is happy to hear from me. Russia actually doesn't /need/ so much, since you aren't going to get attacked by Germany, and likely either A or T can be persuaded to join you (since you are so strong early) if the other one is attacking you, and if that's not the case, then Italy can be. But for Austria, Turkey, or anyone in the west, being silent early usually leads to being out quickly.

But I'm sure there are people that find people who talk alot to be annoying or a security vulnerability so maybe it predisposes them to being attacked.

AviF, I'm like you ont he mid to endgame strategy! At least depend on my allies to point things out like (yes, but if you move there, they will retreat into your supply center) But then I constantly feel like, shit, am I giving too much control to my ally in our decisions and are they setting up to stab me?

@Stackelberg: It was textbook in a way. The game was pretty much over for Italy and I at that point. I still don't understand whether A/R/F all knew that there was a joint stab happening on Germany/Italy or whether it was lucky coincidence.

Gen Lee Austria and I never communicated clearly but he said enough that I knew *something* was up, just no idea what... josunice nudged me along, but was sort of passe about it, like he didn't think I had a good chance of successfully stabbing you. I would say I knew the least going into that year.

Gen Lee (Austria) approached me (Russia) out of the blue in my estimation... with Turkey not supporting me to attack and disband Bulgaria, I figured I was done. I spoke with Stack (France) exclusive of Gen Lee's moves, as I was not sure it was actually going to happen. From then I was just focused on trying to be the country in the middle -- and getting into Munich was a great boon...

France wasn't an ally in that process. And as soon as it was done he was the #1 enemy b/c munich was just barely safe and he was coming to try and steal my toys I had just stolen from Italy. I did say something to France the turn before, but it was more testing the waters to see whether he would pile on germany or prop him up and go south. I had also hoped to get some communication going so that I could convince France to push for gains and make a solo run in the north (while proping up Russia to make it harder) and let me clean up in the south - that never happened.

Definitely one of those turns where you throw something at the screen :)

As Russia, erist, I threw kisses!

Alright, here's my (much briefer than above) EOG:

Spring 1901

France opened with a proposal to DMZ the channel, which I regarded with more suspicion than if he had proposed a bounce. Germany made some noises about moving on Burgundy, which again seemed off that'd he'd reveal that info first turn when it'd probably be leaked. I decided to give France a half chance and opened with a sealion defence.

Some general chit chat with others, notably Austria urging a Russian attack.

Autumn 1901

France moves to the channel, fair enough. Russia thankfully went for a regular southern opening meaning I can take norway and self bounce to prevent a french convoy. German communications are scattered and internally inconsistent. Proposes support into belgium, but I suspect he's trying to get into the north sea.

Well, shit. Germany supports france into Bel, the alliance is in full swing and I'm up shit creek.

Spring 1902

Russia proposes exchanging Nor for Swe to get a better leverage on Germany. I'm desperate for an ally, so I accept. I attempt to take back the channel but germany breaks support in the north sea. I mentally put him on my shit list.

August 1902

France sees through my self bounce and gets into London. Russia makes good and supports me to sweden. I break denmark's support to get me in, germany isn't best pleased. London lost, I disband in sweden.

1903

I shuffle my units, but it's all over. France tightens the noose, and I fail to retake london. Germany moves into sweden. Russia makes some helpful suggestions but It's too late.

1904/05

Russia prolongs my existance by supporting to Norway to deny germany. Germany doesn't support himself in and I gain another turn. Russia retakes Norway 05, and it's game over.


Overall, I don't think I played this particularly well. 1901 press was overly verbose, and not trusting Germany more possibly backfired, but I think I was probably facing a France/German alliance anyway. Once I lost the channel and was prevented from retaking it, I had nowhere to go, and neither Italy nor Russia got stuck into Fra/Ger early enough to do me any good.

I don't think the grey press added anything to the game. I didn't really know what to do with it or how to employ it effectively. I think a full grey press/black press game would have been a bit more interesting. This was a regular game, with a bit of a novelty sideshow that was abandoned after 1901/02.

Thank you, Demo, for the game. Too bad France got into London. Your moves to deny Germany to the benefit of my Russia were sweet, though, and certainly assisted in his untimely demise. I agree if I'm going down I feel better to have grabbed an enemy or two with me.