It makes me think of Alfred in the Dark Knight Rises: "There is a prison in a more ancient part of the world, a pit where men are thrown to suffer and die. But sometimes a man rises from the darkness. Sometimes the pit sends something back."

It makes think of Paulie in Goodfellas: "I'm not talking about what you did inside, you did what you had to do, I'm talking about now, from now, here and now."

it's quite crazy

Horrible. The end of this wicked government can't come soon enough.

So now we have to recycle old stories? What is this, propaganda week?

http://webdiplomacy.net/forum.php?threadID=869444&page-thread=1

You water carriers for American global hegemony need to get new talking points.

One day you'll be deeply ashamed of what you've written about on this forum about North Korea, Putin33. When these prisons are opened it will be like when Nazi death camps were liberated.

Because you and your ilk have so accurate so far when it comes to depicting your enemy du jour as "Nazis". I love how the people who smear the liberators of Nazi death camps like to compare everything to Nazis.

Come to think of it, can anybody think of the last dire prediction that Invictus was actually correct about? He's pretty much 0 for the century when it comes to his hysterical doom & gloom nonsense.

Seems like a very "Do it to Julia!" sort of action...

Desperate, savage situations breed desperate, savage actions.

Also...

"You water carriers for American global hegemony need to get new talking points."

1. "American global hegemony?" You're two steps and a tin foil hat away from babbling on about some government mind control or a New World Order, there, Putin...that or spouting more tired Marxist propaganda in the same breath as condemning alleged American propaganda--the kettle called. It asked you to stop calling it black.

2. You know, I can understand why you'd be a Marxist, Putin...I'm clearly not, but I guess I can see the appeal for some people...but does that REALLY mean you have to back the worst of the worst when it comes to communist regimes? I mean...North Korea? For someone who decries human rights violations...you pull for North Korea? For a nation that would happily see you dead in a second...you're supportive, in some, in any capacity? A state that--granted you don't like Orwell, but the reference still holds--has come closer than any other to matching Oceania with Big Brother, a Two Minutes hate, telescreens you can't turn off (they have radios that can't be turned off in North Korea) and so on...you're on board with the closest manifestation of The Party and "1984?" Why not just applaud Stalin as...as well...oh...

3. +1 Invictus...Putin, when the people who survive North Korea say what an awful place it is, do you REALLY have a leg to stand on trying to defend it?

Wait, is the person who just got done excusing everything Israel has done to the Palestinians in the name of self-defense lecturing me about the DPRK? Really?

American global hegemony is a common term used in political science. Is there anything incorrect about that term? Didn't think so.

And how would you know anything about life in the DPRK, Obi? Your news sources are garbage.

Putin, answer us this: what evidence would you need to see to convince you that North Korea is a bad place?

^please

I like you, Putin, but I never understand how killing people and any living thing within your sight for not bowing to a portrait of a dead guy can be the mark of a good nation, no matter what their upper class's economic and social status may be and no matter what political affiliation they fall under.

And I don't think Israel and North Korea are comparable in any way at all whatsoever. None of us would rather not get into that discussion anyway...

Tolstoy of all people should understand that when the government deems something an "enemy state", they make up all sorts of bs about it in order to justify aggression towards it.
The DPRK cannot be a bad place when neutral international observers come back claiming it has a healthcare system the rest of the developing world would envy, and the counterevidence is nothing but propaganda reports from groups who don't even live in the country and have a history of making up nonsense in order to justify war.

I never said the DPRK is an ideal place. It is a garrison state. It didn't become a garrison state by accident. It would be nice if it could spend its defense budget on human needs. But it is not suicidal.That is why I bring up the Israel comparison. Because Israel is also a garrison state.

Israelis of all people should understand what it means to be surrounded by enemies, like North Korea.

How is the DPRK surrounded by enemies? Doesn't China still support it up to some extent because it's not a US stronghold?

Invictus: "Putin, answer us this: what evidence would you need to see to convince you that North Korea is a bad place?"

Putin: Okay, Id have to see a video of him singing "Oppressing you,"
two forms of government ID, a police officer there to verify
the whole thing, four or five of my buddies and Neal taking notes,
and Kim Jung Un grandma to confirm his identity.

Kim Jung Un's Grandma: Thats my Kim Jung Un, always oppressing people.

Interesting article. There are lots of issues with it. No evidence of this being true whatsoever. I don't see a lot of very critical questions being asked to the boy, it seems whatever he says is printed straight away. How on earth do you "walk" to China from North Korea? How is he so sure that things are better there? What happens when you make first contact with Chinese people, don't they get you back into N-Korea pronto? How on earth could a North Korean refugee get from China to S-Korea?

I find it very strange that this boy's location is revealed as "Southern California". That seems like dangerous information in and of itself, particularly in combination with the boy's picture and the background of the book that I suppose tells his story.

More problems with the story: it's exactly what I want to hear about N-Korea, exactly how the world makes sense to me: the communists are the bad guys and losing since 1945, the capitalists are the good guys and gaining terrain everywhere. I don't like stories that tell me exactly what I want to hear.

Another problem with the story: it seems lucrative to just make this up. Books generate lots of money. Was his story possibly exaggerated? Were things left out? I know when I tell stories I sometime "forget" a little detail to spice it up. I wonder how the mind of a brain-washed kids deals with reality.

Also, I'm surprised the kid seems to be able to take a slightly distant attitude to it all. "At the time I took the guards' side and not my families." It seems like now he's all into family values. How's that possible? The story assumes the whole concept of how a family works is something he's not familiar with.

Also, how do we know the kid is even from N-Korea? Are there South Koreans confirming that his accent and habits are typically N-Korean?

That said, N-Korea is probably the hell hole that the kid describes it to be. It's just that we have no way of ever finding out with our own eyes, do we Putin33?

"And how would you know anything about life in the DPRK, Obi? Your news sources are garbage."

1. BBC News, Reuters, and CNN are all garbage now, are they?

(Well, some here would knock the last one, but in fairness all cable news channels are poor...)

2. I did North Korea 4 straight times--over two years--for Model UN...

I did my study on it, thanks.

And what are YOUR news sources that tell you this is all a bunch of hokum, Putin?

The DPRK's own state news agency? If you're going to knock my sources, PLEASE--

Supply your own to somehow back up this defense of quite possibly the most tyrannical, brutal regime on the planet?

(As for Israel/Palestine, I supported Israel vs. Hamas, because, well, Israel IS the lesser of those two evils...I WILL say I think Israel's being a provocateur and somewhat of an occupying bully placing extra settlements in the West Bank the way it is now...that's not going to lead to anything good--not for the Palestinians, not for Israel politically, not for settlers who might live there and be in the line of fire if war breaks out...it's a bad, bad move, and Israel SHOULD be chastised for it. *I*, you see, don't blanketly support any cause or nation like a radical, Putin...

When I feel Israel's fouled up, I'll say so...
When I feel the US has blown it, I'll say so...
When I feel Obama or the Democrats have made a mess of things, I'll say so...
Hell, I'll even criticize Shakespeare when he writes a poor play--case in point, The Merry Wives of Windsor, aka, "Elizabeth Wanted Another Falstaff Play So Here It Is Please Keep Paying Me.")

Really tough shit, Shin. Glad you made it in one piece, mind and body.