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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Zmaj (215 D(B))
10 May 12 UTC
EoG: Those crazy live gunboats
gameID=88520
An interesting and well-balanced game.
4 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
10 May 12 UTC
Obama Publicly Supports Same-Sex Marriage
http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/president-obama-affirms-his-support-for-same-sex-marriage.html

Well, it IS an election year...nevertheless, not exactly a great vote-winner in states he won in 2008, necessarily...so--thoughts (both on Obama's backing it, the issue, and what impact this may have on the 2012 race?)
15 replies
Open
Poozer (962 D)
08 May 12 UTC
EOG - Spring Gunboat 2012, Game 1-C-2
gameID=86118
Won by Balls Deep (England), assisted by Gobbledydook (Italy).
18 replies
Open
semck83 (229 D(B))
10 May 12 UTC
Interesting Archaeological Find
For those interested.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/05/120508103803.htm
0 replies
Open
SantaClausowitz (360 D)
09 May 12 UTC
Sweet Dreams
One off post for the German apologists out there
4 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
10 May 12 UTC
New Theory of Online Diplomacy
It seems to me that in our minds diplomacy is a pure game...
36 replies
Open
mattsh (775 D)
10 May 12 UTC
World - Quebec
What are good starting moves in a no-communications game?
6 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
10 May 12 UTC
I need a new friend!
Lost the old list and one person didn't show up.
Post here if you'd like to join us: gameID=88343
2 replies
Open
Vaftrudner (2533 D)
10 May 12 UTC
EOG fast gunboat-32
44 replies
Open
dubmdell (556 D)
07 May 12 UTC
@ Pseudo-postal players
Please cancel. None of us apparently has time for press.
10 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
05 May 12 UTC
Presidential elections in France
Vote here!

Sarkozy or Hollande? Who would be the best for France? For Europe? For the world?
68 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
08 May 12 UTC
The Game, by Neil Strauss
This is hilarious; the thread titled "What's so great about this move" accidentally triggered my vague memories of this book. Anybody read it? Anybody had a life-changing experience because of it? :-)
12 replies
Open
largeham (149 D)
09 May 12 UTC
HAPPY BIRTHDAY KARL MARX
In true Webdip style, I have to jump on the latest bandwagon of threads. So happy birthday Karl (though it was actually 4 days ago).
22 replies
Open
Putin33 (111 D)
09 May 12 UTC
Happy Victory Day
Забьём козла, козла, браточки?
Забьём, само собой!
Так стукнем раз и стукнем два,
Точка! Добой!
3 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
08 May 12 UTC
HAPPY BIRTHDAY F.A. HAYEK
As I recently learned from webDiplomacy that being libertarian = I must worship the ground Austrian economists bless with the serene touch of their feet, I hereby dedicate this thread to His Greatness F.A. Hayek. Happy birthday, Freddy!
17 replies
Open
Sargmacher (0 DX)
08 May 12 UTC
HAPPY BIRTHDAY VINCE CABLE! :D
Words cannot express how lucky British politics is to have the presence of Dr Vince Cable and I know many people on WebDip admire him. To pay our respects to this beloved man, I hereby dedicate this thread to wishing Vince Cable a happy birthday. Happy birthday, Dr Cable!
3 replies
Open
Umbrella (119 D)
09 May 12 UTC
Noob question - What happens if game time starts w/less than 7 players?
I haven't played on this site, so I am curious. I have signed up for a game that should be starting soon, but only 2 people have signed up.
2 replies
Open
mattsh (775 D)
09 May 12 UTC
Message history available after game
Why can't we see message history after a game is over? It would be interesting for learning and review about communication strategy.
1 reply
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
09 May 12 UTC
Romancing the bike...
http://grist.org/biking/romancing-the-bike-the-seduction-of-pedal-powered-transport/#.T6hM3dyEAww.twitter
0 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
09 May 12 UTC
Can the TD of the World Cup contact the Mods ASAP
Thanks.
2 replies
Open
Chanakya. (703 D)
22 Apr 12 UTC
CLUB DIPLOMACY
I am planning to start a series in which the members of this CLUB will be eligible to play. Games will be on Classic Board and Bets will be of maximum 50 D.


63 replies
Open
headward7 (139 D)
08 May 12 UTC
9-centre Austria needed 24hr open-press
Lucky you, nobody nibbled on your impressive bulk while you slept... Come play!
2 replies
Open
DiploMerlin (245 D)
08 May 12 UTC
Yet Another Rule Clarification
1. If you attempt to move to a square occupied by your own unit that is supporting another unit do you cut off support?
2. If you support a move to a square occupied by your own unit that you hope will move and an opposition unit attacks the same square without support do you win the square and dislodge your own unit?

I think the answer to both is "no" but I want to be sure.
7 replies
Open
HDK (100 D)
05 May 12 UTC
AL - CIADUH!?
I heard from someone recently that the CIA was responsible for the establishment of Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. Is this true?
30 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
29 Apr 12 UTC
EoG : "H. Kissinger's Allies-3"
gameID=81430

Slot reserved
redhouse1938 (429 D)
29 Apr 12 UTC
EoG by Turkey “Grève” + Departure redhouse

GAME SUMMARY (I’ll write a long summary rather than a full EoG; I have some places to go and people to see)

Classic, WTA, full-press, 1.5 day phases, anon, 150 D, PW protected
Pre-game agreements: special anonimity measures, particularly pre-1903 (see my profile)

Result (drawers from high to low SC count, defeated nation from latest to earliest defeat):

FRANCE (Drawn 1914, 15 SCs, Bad85): Manche opening (Spain/Picardy)
GERMANY (Drawn, 10 SCs, Sandgoose): Blitzkrieg opening, Dutch variation
TURKEY (Drawn, 9 SCs, redhouse1938, game initiator): Balkan concentration
Russia (Defeated, 1914, gregoire): Ukraine system (Southern Defense)
Austria (Defeated, 1909, semck83): Blue Water
England (Defeated, 1906, Fasces349): Pure Northern
Italy (Defeated, 1906, LakersFan): Classic Obriani

Having gotten to know Bad85 during a French/Italian alliance in the first game I played on this site, I was happy to learn he came back to the site, so we could play together another game and I could beat him again. Two players I’d gotten to know in earlier games, Fasces and Sandgoose, were keen to join and after recruiting Gregoire and Fasces, the final player to join I believe was Semck, who already told me in advance that he wouldn’t have as much time to negotiate as he normally would during a game of this type. Semck did negotiate, but indeed it was less than I’d hoped. Thanks for helping me out on filling the slot just before the deadline.
The game started with Italy/Austria joining in a very complex alliance that determined much of the board mechanics, but ended because Italy left his homeland too undefended against Austria, who profited temporarily from its takeover and at one point was actually reduced to owning only Italy’s home centers, to the amusement of the board. France played a very independent game, Russia and me allied in a Juggernaut and Germany’s strategy I believe was pretty much dominated by the events that occurred to his south.
With the Juggernaut effectively advancing west and taking out Austria and Italy, and France cooperating with Germany to knock out England, a situation arose in 1906 in which F/G stood against R/T with Austria in the middle, but both blocks essentially competing for dominance on the board, a struggle won by F/G.
Efforts to change the board dynamics such as simulating war between R/T failed, and Russia, having made some tactical slips that involved such events as not ordering holding units to support their neighbors and attacking rather than defending English Nwy in 1906, promised me in the period 1906-1909 to try sacrifice his empire to my advantage. Who am I to refuse such an offer? I took it, but perhaps too enthusiastically :-)
Russia subsequently stabbed me, for a reason still mostly unknown to me, in autumn 1909. This is a major setback, as the plan at this point was for me to take over Russian terrain and disequilibrate F/G to get them to attack each other, eventually finding a survive site for Russia and go for the solo. I would have followed through on this promise, Russia’s loyalty being very sincere in the pre-1909 period and not wavering once.
It is during this same period, 1906-1909, that I can finally break through to the Ionian and set up a defense against France there. In the beginning of the game, Italy had left a Lepanto left-over fleet in the Eastern mediterranean (1904-1906) turn after turn, blocking my expansion, but to no advantage whatsoever to Italy itself. Italy, Y U no get the **** out of my pond, hmmm?
After the 1909 stab, I send a message to France that whatever happens on the northern front, the three units that at that point are defending the Ionian Sea will be the last line of defense to fall, since I’m betting on two things: first, that at this point in the F/G alliance Germany is growing too fast, causing an unbalance in their alliance that is favorable to me and second, that I still have a chance for Germany and his new ally Russia to start fighting each other, rather than me.
This plan works and Germany grows much larger than France does, and France and me finally go to war with Germany. What’s a little frustrating about France is the extreme staticness of his western front. It is clear that France isn’t really into the game, as he evidently hasn’t made a defensive agreement. The strange thing is that Germany, in the years 1909-1911 is obviously preparing a major attack on France, but France doesn’t seem to have a clear definition of what a German attack would be. No good DMZs or bounces were agreed on and this eventually leads to the spring 1911 message from France that I found extremely funny to read – and I don’t remember the precise formulation – but it came down to that « Germany had really crossed the line by taking Edinburgh and could expect a declaration of war ». No shit.
I start supplying tactical advice to France, involving full activation of the French units in the period from 1911-1913, but the plan works a little bit too well, with France becoming a serious solo threat.
I try to negotiate an anti-leader alliance with Germany, but Germany insists on being very vague on exactly what his end of the deal would be and sometimes changes his end of the bargain during the negotiation. I ask France permission to balance our alliance by me building a fleet and taking some of his Italian centers, but France doesn’t agree. If I would have reached an agreement with Germany that turn, I would have definitely invaded Italy, using – at the center of my tactics – the bounce in TyS that you see in the last screen. This bounce was sold to France as « delaying my alliance with Germany » while really it was supposed to keep the Mar-Lyo-TyS corridor clogged up until I could station a fleet in Aeg and set up a convoy line from the Turkish mainland, that was overly occuppied by armies, to the Italian mainland, of which Apulia would have been a spring convoy target. I was planning to blitz through it.
I’m pretty sure I could have taken the solo, if Germany and me had managed at that point to stop the new solo threat, which was France, but I’m not sure whether we would have managed, in 1914, to effectively stop the solo threat, although with vulnerable Italian centers and only 15 SCs, I’m pretty sure we had a decent shot.
The game finished in 1914, when Germany and France were sort of war-fatigued, and I was the junior power and didn’t feel a three-way draw was too much of an embarassment, my wanting to check out of the site also played a role in putting my draw flag up.

I’ll finish with some advices and commentaries on individual playing styles:

France: I believe you need to start playing a slightly more active defense. As an example of what I mean, you could take a look at the situation in 1907; your defense of England consists of Edi and Lon holding, while a German convoy to England in Yor would have been crippling (that unit could have pushed to Lvp and supported an attack on Edi from there: devastating). You should just bounce the two units into each other every now and then, effectively defending three squares with two units. Also, in 1907/1908 there is a Paris unit that just stands there: give him a job! Also, I believe you need to make solid agreements on where your boarders are, and how to defend them. But this is just a side note, as always, it’s been lots of fun playing against you and you have a talent for cooperation. It seems, just like last time, that once I get an alliance with you going, the only danger is of that alliance becoming too productive.

Germany: Also, it’s been a lot of fun playing against you again, but you need to get a little organized in your messages. Sometimes, they were slightly emotionally charged and not always sufficiently structured for me to understand what you wanted. But, I stand by the endorsement text on your player profile. Also, a draw is an act of despair, not a goal to work toward from the beginning of the game, although I also made the mistake of aiming for a draw rather than a win in one game and the forum taught me a good lesson about it when I put up the story on that game. In this game, I believe you put up your draw flag a little too early. I also advice you to write EoGs, you have a lot of potential as a player and EoGs can help sharpen your style, because you’re forced to think about what went wrong and right. Mucho love.

Italy: You essentially invited Austria to take over your country. Be sure to leave behind some units to defend your country, even if you feel you’re in a really strong alliance. Austria did nothing wrong by stabbing you, you asked for that stab.

England: It was a lot of fun having long-distance communications with you and I don’t have any advice to you, since you were too far away for me to really understand in depth what was going on on your side of the board.

Austria: Had fun playing against you, but like you said before the game, you wouldn’t have a lot of time communicating, and with me being a communicative player, that meant I allied with the others. Sorry if my attack against you looked like a stab. Also, why the mute? :-)

Russia: You were my game long ally with a small pause. Your stab infuriated me to the point where I had fantasies of slinging objects through the room, although I didn’t actually do it. The fact that you didn’t answer the question as to why you stabbed me and when you did, the answer was a little bizarre, made the fantasies stronger, but I could luckily restrain myself. Anyway, you were a clearly a very nice guy. I hope your concert was fun!

**********

Anyways, that’s it for redhouse. I’m taking an extended site holiday (several months).

I would like to thank in particular the following players on the site with whom I played several games and always had a lot of fun with:

@MrcsAurelius, congratulatios on winning the invitational! It was a lot of fun playing with you in the, what was it? four matches? that we played together. Be sure that next time you say that « you’ll take a rematch any time » to actually take the rematch when it’s being offered. I love how you’re very self-confident in this game, but I’m still the better player. lol. Just kidding. Not really.

@Bad85, I’ve also known you from the start, you’re a great diplomat. I heard you’re also taking a break, good for you, this site is very bad for one’s mental health.

@Tasnica, you’re a brilliant player. Playing with you probably taught me the majority of the crucial lessons one needs to learn to go from understanding the rules to becoming a decent player. I’m very much hoping to play you again in the future, negotiations with you are never a bore.

@TheUnforsaken. Always a pleasure playing with you. One day, you were just sort of gone, I wonder where you’ve been and how you’ve been.

@President Eden, scribble scribble. Lol.

@TruNinja, we also played more than once, and it’s a pity we never really could get into an alliance, I’m curious how it would be to ally with you.

@LakersFan, always a pleasure playing with you.

Also, despite the fact that I only played with them once, I particularly want to thank @jmeyersd, @Nerevatus, @FreeThing, and @ll the others whom I played with during the last months.

I also want to thank the people on the forum for their brilliant, revolutionary ideas and sense of humor. I loved the fierceness of some of the debates.

Webdip.net, I salute you.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
29 Apr 12 UTC
*LakersFan and Sandgoose, where it says "Fasces and Sandgoose"
Nerevatus (496 D)
29 Apr 12 UTC
@redhouse,
That looks like another very interesting game. Thanks for the EoG.

I hope you enjoy your site holiday. I'll be taking one as well and hope we can meet up in another game in the future. I really enjoyed playing with you in our game. You are a cunning player and I found our close partnership very rewarding--it certainly helped raise the level of my play.

These full press games take a lot of time and energy, especially when they are played by people committed to deep diplomacy. That kind of playing style makes the games exciting and rewarding, but it can certainly become difficult to balance the commitment required with external priorities.

Enjoy your break!
redhouse1938 (429 D)
29 Apr 12 UTC
Thanks Nerevatus! That's quite a compliment, thank you so much. We'll definitely play after my break and I wish you all the best with yours!
redhouse1938 (429 D)
29 Apr 12 UTC
Bumpity
Bad85 (576 D)
29 Apr 12 UTC
Very interesting how you observed it redhouse. And thanks for that report. I don't have time now to write it, but I will do so probably tomorrow evening, so hang in there.

Just a few things I found pretty interesting reading your account:

* I'm not so sure if I wasn't really "into this game" - I think I pretty much was actually, but I just trusted Germany a bit too much in that point of the game. I would say that's the explanation on staticness.
* Also, I'm not so sure that you would have easily soloed. I think I wouldn't, indeed, and as I read from your account you and Germany had your guns loaded to aim for me. But it would be probable if you were in the lead I would pick it up with Germany again.
* You mention I was pretty much going on my own in the game. I'm not so sure. For the largest bit I had good relationships with everybody except for England, which was my initial opening target. (I aimed for a sea lion but couldn't pull it off.) Especially with Germany I worked together for the longest part, until he decided to go for my SCs to go for a solo. Too bad, I pretty much trusted the guy that he wanted to two-way draw, but in this game I kind of found out that that is not really a workable situation. You just don't trust each other, are always a bit suspicious.

Anyway, the detailed account follows probably tomorrow. Thanks all for the game, I learnt quite a few things and it was very enjoyable.

Oh and redhouse, enjoy your break. The game is just hard to manage in busy times, I agree :-)
redhouse1938 (429 D)
30 Apr 12 UTC
Hey Bad,

Yes, I should have been a little bit more specific:

1) It's true you were into it, but I just thought that at some point, you occasionally satisfied yourself with the easiest solution of some of the problems you faced, rather than the best solution. Such as when you asked me "if I could tell something about my region on the board", it sounded a little dry. Why not some lovey-doviness before asking me for something, or offering me some intel about your region first? Of course, these are really puny details, and we had a great game together.
2) The reason I think I could have soloed - _if_ Germany and me would have managed to stop your own very evident solo threat - was the impression I had that the relationship between you and Germany was deteriorating faster than either of your relationships with me, and also you seemed to spark wars between each other by stabs rather than trying to regulate it. I thought at some point I could have profited from the spoiled F/G, but I'm not 100% sure, neither of my analysis of your relationship, nor whether I could have profited from that all the way.
3) The commentary about you going off on your own a bit was mostly about the departure of the game, and I could very well be wrong there. You should never ever aim for a draw, unless you find a circumstance that seems to disturb the whole board. I proposed a two-way draw together with you when it appeared impossible for me to establish a solid relationship with Germany at the end of the game. It was more of a solution to what I considered a board-wide problem than a strategic goal.

I hope these answers provide you with the intel you need to write an EoG, which I'm looking forward to read. Thanks for the questions, when I posted the EoG I already thought it rambled a bit on the points you mention.
Sandgoose (0 DX)
30 Apr 12 UTC
H. Kissinger's Allies-3 EOG-----Germany/Nazi Power

THis is a breif EOG since I don't remember a ton about the game, just scrolling through 1901 to present day to remember...we'll see if it jogs the good ol noggin! ;)


Pre-game Funtasticness
Weeeeelll this is cool, probably one of the first higher pot games I've played in a while...interested on what's going to be happenin this game...I'd like to get it popin' I am germany...agian...meh...I used to suck with germany but it seems like I do much better these days...we'll find out with all these people now wont we! :D

01 Spring love
Well, france is all on the game plan to attack england. I hope it all turns out excellente' england opens north, conflict in austria and germany....France notifies me that italy will move to munich...perhaps its a ploy to make sure he gets belgium? It'd be wierd to see italy over extend himself for two builds in 01 though...if he does it he'll probably end up dead.

01 Fall sadness...
Seeems like france ISNT on board and I am about to get cluster fucked... oh boy...England bounces Den, france goes for the belgium build, italy doesn't move his northern two units? wtf?
Guess I should build a fleet to attack england...DEN IS MINE BIOTCH!

02 Spring
Okkkaayyy...wondering why the hell italy moves north itno tyro and boh for no reason as austria moves against russia...weird actions going on here....munich's going to chill out...going to grab swe and den in the fall...lets see how it goes

02 Fall
T_T fuck you italy....fuck you for being a dumb ass...fuck your first born, last born...and your mother... T_T I will...fuck...you...up... ^_^ tee hee
seems like i'll get a build and some fun re attack of italy!

03 SPring cluster fuck
Welllll seeems like I'm loosin my nazi touch...france moves on me, italy moves closer....france must think he's god by moving on england and I AT THE SAME TIME! oh boy, hopefully england will listen to better reason

03 fall
I get itlay to leave me alone and attack austria...woot woot. France is knockin on my door...I tried to get eng in bel...not very successful...russia moves to prussia and makes me nervous
No builds but I have position...

04 Spring
sadly russia threatens berlin and now I have a big problem getting squeezed between two nations...its like....im the meat inside the sandwich..and boy do i have the meat! ;D

04 Fall
OH YEAH I GET A BUILD! OH YEAH I GET FRANCE TO STOP ATTACKING OH YEAH I GOT THE NORTH SEA....oh fuck russia build a fleet st. p SC...OH YEAH!

05 Springy
Fight back the russian!!!! convince france to let me get belgium...moves to attack the seemin jugger schmugger....man...seems like i got some moves workin out for me here.

05 Fall
Come at me bro!!! I get my fleet build and pushed my line back...helpin england stay alive to help me get in the north some how...must figure out evvvilll plaaan BUAAAHAHHA
Loving my advance by the way...see what happens when you mess with my german nazi hitler bomb status! Sorry russia, nothing personal but I am just going to keep on going at you...you attacked first...dont worry, france has his coming..


08 Spring
So, it seems as though Turkey for some strange and odd reason doesn't want to attack france together...france built kept his army in paris...got this naggin feeling he is going to stab soon soon as I can I am going back to my ass to defend it
Russia has ceased diplomacy with me for good...don't know why...

08 Fall
ass fuck >:| france moved to bur...strong worded diplomacy headed his way...full out threats to suicide. I learned recently how many players are afraid of suicide threats and throwing games...i admit I am one of them...tee hee...France sseeeeems to be taking the cake...we'll find out in the spring
obviously built an army...glad because I don't need more fleets. I have barrents to get into norwegian and start doing damage if needed.

09 Spring
wowie, german diplomacy ftw... :) france made the split...turkey is talking like he owns the game...didnt want to hit ukr so he could "pick up a build" so sad though :( I think turkey's an ass...maybe he's a cool guy but he doesnt talk much to me at least.
France has me please for actually following through with his moves, perhaps I wont take him out...I am offering out of the goodness of my heart getting russia into SEV just because I don't like turkey...wonder if he'll do it *crosses fingers*

09 Fall
nice...he did it. :D seems like russia is a cool cat after all...interesting though that he tells me press between him an turkey has been very neutral in nature...hmmm...makes me curious to the future...if they're too afraid to attack each other...I might just have to take them both out and solo rather than draw...ponders world domination
*pets goat*
I think I'll get him into Budapest and punish turkey for not helping me into moscow originally...its gobble time :D

Builds 09
Armies, need I say more? I have enough to kick butt in the north, it's the south I am concerned about.

Spring 10
Diplomacy is really picking up. Making arrangements with france to put on a fake war in the north. It's going to be fun I am sure...give turkey a good show until he's gone all of a sudden. *sigh* gotta be upset though, france was supposed to triple into the ionian, he would have had it for sure...but now I guess that's not going to happen, I have this queezy feeling like I might get stabbed here.France seems to be looking for any reason to fight me. I can win, but not on two fronts.

Fall 10
Defense...clap clap clap...deeeefense...I got a feeling I should stab that french bastard! but not yet, too nice of a guy. :)

Builds 10
I think I am stabbing a tad early but hey, who gives a damn, go hard or go home.

From here on out I don't feel like doing it for each specific year so I'll just get on to the point of the end game. I think a lot of dynamics changed at this point, I was really counting on my french friend to keep attacking turkey in the south with me, but hey, I stabbed him so there's not much I can do. The dynamics of the game changed here quite a bit, in 1912 everyone started attackin me and I was running out of room to grow, france got his units up faster and turkey seems to have convinced russia that it's all going to be alright and told russia to take budapest. So much for that. blah. With Turkey in sev i make desperate attempts to reach out to france and make a full scale retreat of my forces. I think I do it pretty well and thought that france would once again be with me to two way, sadly it doesn't work, I know if I continue to fight france turkey will finish me in the south, I know france has too many units in the north so TUrkey would end up growing exponentially until the end of the game, so yes, so close to my 18 but a few things dashed it. First, my early french stab, Mainly coming from thinking France would crack the ionian a bit earlier but didnt, I was also gambling that turkey would be loose on his strength and I could convince the Russian to hold with me. I must admit, the last 4 years I was just tired of the game, my diplomacy text got a lot less...well...diplomatic, became more of an emotional battle. For future games I have to rmmbr to stay strong diplomacy the whole way through. Time is money, but these long phases take time. Maybe I should take a break from diplomacy once all my games and tournaments process for a bit.

I do say, I don't have advice or tid bits to give away, only because I know I'm not best to hand out advice. I must say Germany used to be my weakest country, but it has become my strongest, only because for some odd reason I have been able to effectively negotiate with france. Fair warning, if I am Germany, I'll be 100% sure to go for england with france, it works the best. :)

all in all I think it was a great game, at points it was kind of boring, but I have a weird sense of humor to keep things...how shall I say...Interesting, and those that have played with me, no doubt, have seen it.

Advice for anybody, don't get so caught up in the game that it becomes all you care about, develop relationships, when you develop relationships, somehow diplomacy just gets easier, EVEN if they stab you or take land from you, you just say, alrighty I am dead this time, I'll get em next game.

HAve a GRAND fukn good time! Ridin' solo....solo solo....


although I pulled a good hitler, problem is that I ended almost like hitler, having to commit suicide...not because of the russians, but because of the french...jesus...I lost to the french??!?!?! FML... T_T
Bad85 (576 D)
30 Apr 12 UTC
Sandgoose thank you for that. And thanks for a good game.

Alright here, we go, I will try to do it by season as well, what I remember from it:
Spring 1901: spending lots and lots of time for my cunning plan to launch an attack on England. Germany is in and seems reliable. I manage to establish a good relationship with Italy as well, who won’t bother me. Tried to convince him to go after Austria, but he has his arrows on Germany. I said I might join that plan later but England is my first focus. Manage to convince England not to go into Channel. Warn Germany for Italy moving into Burgundy.

Fall 1901: fairly good start, England is in big problems. Too bad Italy moved into Tyo. The advantage though is that I can easily slip into Belgium and manage to get two builds.

Spring 1902: planted the builds in Brest for an additional fleet on England, which I plan to sail around to charge a bit more on England. Start sending message to convince Russia to go a bit north and take a bite of England as well. I need the additional fleet (I thought at that time) since the German is in trouble.

Fall 1902: Could easily now move into NAO and Irish sea and get another neutral build down south. Everything is going very smooth – growth is fast but no early leader syndrome. Also, apart from pissing of England I manage good relations with everybody. Least contact with Turkey and Austria. Meanwhile Germany has concluded I was redhouse :S.

Spring 1903: With yet another fleet England is in trouble now. I will support myself both into Lvp and the Channel because of German help. After the neutral builds are secure I decide to move my Spanish army northward. Germany has been invaded by Italy in Munich and this could be the time to make sure I get a share of the pot, so I also put my Bel army into Ruhr. In retrospect I shouldn’t have done this because Germany easily kicks Italy back out.

Fall 1903: I try to get a shot at Holland, communicated this with Russia & Italy who are also willing to take a stab at Germany. Meanwhile defind my position in England.

Spring 1904: now I realized I made a mistake on Germany. He sought and found support from the british so I cannot claim Holland. But I do have pissed off Germany. He uses some strong diplomacy and forces me out. I decide to focus on England and hope to restore relations with Germany but the guy keeps whining about it :-). Which I understand. I also built a fleet in Marseilles which isn’t doing that much because I don’t want to piss off Austria. This my second mistake in the game, I should have activated a bit earlier.

Fall 1904: Germany gets into the north sea. Which is a bit tricky. However, I need it to get some help in gaining all English SCs, so I did nothing to prevent it. Perhaps I should have been stronger towards Germany here. He kept this spot for the whole game which was bloody annoying at moments.

Spring 1905: Finally I realize, a bit too late that I should move into the Med. I plan to move GoL towards the Ionian, and move irish sea downwards as well since I have no. Keep pressing Italy, who was a longstanding good relationship to continue the bouncing with Turkey until I can seal the med up. I realize I might win this game unless the Turk breaks through the south. Because of German support I can walk into Edinburgh.

Fall 1905: I increase diplomacy with Austria promising to keep supporting him and convincing him I need to be in Pie and help on holding off Russia. Germany pisses me off by holding London. But maybe that wasn’t too bad. I was in the lead at this moment so a bit slowing down on growth should not be a problem.

Spring 1906:Alright, I will now force a good position in the med by moving MAO to Tys. With Germany agreed that in the fall, London and the british island are mine.
Fall 1906: going very very well, I sail into Tunis, the south is sealed off from Turkey and the island is claimed. Two more builds and I have 9 SCs, closely followed by Germany. At this point I need to decide where the growth is coming from. I decide it’s on the south.

I will now switch into years as stuff starts move a bit more slowly now:

1907: I reinforce positions in the south. No builds for me but Germany is growing. That is slightly disturbing but for now he is moving towards the northeast so no worries for me. In addition, he’s building no fleets so I should be fine. Noted here redhouse that I should have started bouncing Edi and Lon to avoid a convoy from Germany. But I trusted the guy.

1908: encouraged by Turkey I try to take down the whole of Austrian Italy, which succeeds in part. I’m pretty sure that redhouse (turkey) whispered to Russia what was happening as there was a miraculous support hold on venice. Too bad, otherwise I would have taken all three down. I thought this was possible as I had enough fleets down here now (4) to hold off turkey on my own. But perhaps I should have waited a bit and forced a breakthrough here first. Another mistake here is that I moved into Burgundy. Germany was furious, although we didn’t agree anything on Bur as far as I can remember. Again he diplomed me out of there but managed to continuously refer to that as a stab :S.

1909: gain venice, relationships with Germany remain ok, although the guy is clearly up to something as he supported himself into Norwegian sea. I’m weak in the north, Germany has me a bit too much on a leash, his units are much closer.

1910: decide to take an attempt for Germany. Starting a friendship here with Turkey. He’s continuously pushing me to go east but that’s not what I want. Germany seemed sincere with his 2-way draw (shouldn’t have believed that) and I realize that expanding north is simply not an option. So I hope Turkey gives me enough air. Also, with 4 fleets I could be able to break him. Unfortunately, in the fall Germany is clearly building up for invasion.

1911: Germany invades England and I decide to throw everything I have at the guy. I make good commitments with Turkey and throw everything north.

1912: with some good advice from Turkey I manage to slow down the German invasion. He realizes he’s in a draw position and starts begging basically to recooperate. I realize though that if I’m lucky I might have a chance to solo in the north, but I have to be careful as I’m widely exposed in the south:

1913-end of game: I break through Germany by lying now that I will go after Turkey and sneak some SCs from him. However, Turkey starts moving into the med and I realize I can not hold it, I left it too exposed. Too bad. A bit tired of the game I hit the draw as this could go on forever.

Alright, that was my detailed account. So for myself I see the most problems in that I wasn’t decisive at points where I should have stick to my move. With Germany I made some mistakes with that, the occasional invasion of a little province but never a decisive move. Also, sometimes leaving units too static indeed, perhaps too afraid to piss people off.

As for the advice towards others, I think I cannot provide it to everyone, so here’s to a few:

@Turkey: you were quite arrogant at the start. If I start a conversation about some intelligence what’s going on, the reply “tell me some stuff first” just gets a bit annoying after a while. But I remarked this during the game and you definitely did something with that feedback. Further, great game, we had some good cooperation in the end going on.

@Germany: was good working together. Indeed you throw a lot of emotions in. Especially when you extended your hand you were very polite, but then a move later you were pretty rude again. Not extremely credible.

@Italy: you went a bit on your own in Germany, I guess you hoped for cooperation from Russia and myself but I wasn’t really into it, which you could have read in between the lines I would say.

@Russia: you were too far away so I was only involved in disbanding your last unit :-). But looking at the board I was very surprised how you gave your position away, at some point you were quite strong vs Germany/Turkey.

Finally, question to sandgoose: would you have supported Turkey in stopping a solo attempt from me at the end or would you have given it away?
Bad85 (576 D)
30 Apr 12 UTC
oh and I was France btw :-) - lovely country
redhouse1938 (429 D)
30 Apr 12 UTC
Great EoGs guys. wow, apparently I wasn't always as nice I as I should have been. Dang. It's the one lesson I have to keep learning all over again :-)
LakersFan (899 D)
30 Apr 12 UTC
RH, I don't disagree that I invited Austria to stab me by attacking you and not leaving forces behind to defend the Ionian Sea, etc.

My point is that it profited Austria nothing. He had every reason to work with me to take you out, and no reason to stab me. Yet he was talked into making a move that was to his detriment.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
30 Apr 12 UTC
Agreed LF.
Sandgoose (0 DX)
30 Apr 12 UTC
given it away, only because redhouse has this manipulative side to him...I was dead serious when I told you that you were being used, I said it flat out to you in my press...but you didn't believe me...Either way, I wouldn't give the redhouse the solo....that would make him think he's better than me ;)

redhouse1938 (429 D)
01 May 12 UTC
Lol. You do realize that having a manipulative side is what this game is all about right? ;-)

About manipulation: the answer to Bad's question whether I'd informed Russia that there would be an attack on Trieste, so I could become Bad's friend without my support becoming effective, is yes. :-)
gregoire (100 D)
02 May 12 UTC
Hm I did not see this. I will comment soon.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
02 May 12 UTC
:-)
Sandgoose (0 DX)
02 May 12 UTC
did you really just bump this to put up a smiley face?
jmeyersd (4240 D)
02 May 12 UTC
huuuuuh????? I haven't read the thread or anything, but just looking at the final position, France absolutely coulda soloed that game. why draw?
Draugnar (0 DX)
02 May 12 UTC
@Sandgoose - Maybe redhouse put up the smiley so it would be bumped. Or maybe it was just a happy coincidence that he wanted to put up a smiley and it needed to be bumped. You are confusing causation with correlation.
gregoire (100 D)
02 May 12 UTC
I kept saying that in game...
Sandgoose (0 DX)
02 May 12 UTC
no idea why he didn't, but I took my draw while I had it haha
redhouse1938 (429 D)
02 May 12 UTC
:-D
redhouse1938 (429 D)
02 May 12 UTC
^The first smiley was to express my happiness about another EoG - gregoire's - being submitted here. The second smiley was to infuriate Sandgoose.
Sandgoose (0 DX)
02 May 12 UTC
nah, I don't get mad about dumb stuff.
gregoire (100 D)
04 May 12 UTC
So I really blew this game, but not surprising given the high quality of the other players.

First, in the prior game we cancelled, I was Turkey and Sandhouse was Italy, and I took a liking to him due to his conversational approach and humorous commentary. I recognized him as Germany immediately and that certainly influenced my play.

I'm not sure how to read all messages as it appears to truncate, so I'll try to go based off of my memory and the map.

Basically I agreed to and intended to pursue a Juggernaut for reasons of security amidst these high-rolling players.

But something was wrong right away - nobody was paying attention to me as I rolled over Austria. In the first few turns, France, Germany and England were occupied with one another and presented no challenge or really even attention to me. The Turkish alliance worked well right off the bat, and it was no trouble enlisting Italy's assistance in going against Austria - everything just fell nicely into place for me. Suddenly it's 1904, I've got 8 SCs, a strong Turkish ally, and a front of troops from Baltic to Adriatic, yet no real urgency against my position.

And thus I naturally undermined myself due to anxiety and paranoia. During 1904, I think, I realized that Turkey would have two builds. The only thing that could undermine me, I thought at that time, was Turkey turning against me from behind my own line of troops. Thus during 1904's seasons, I asked for Turkey to not use his second build, and to definitely eschew a build in Ankara, which was practically and by way of commitment, the solidification of my Turkish alliance needed to then press fully against Germany.

BUT two things happened at this time. First, Germany whispered into my ear that Turkey was indeed plotting against me - made persuasive both by my trusting him more because of his joviality and our upfront relations until that time. But this really only swayed me because, during negotiations over the build phase, Turkey indicated that he was going to make the build after all. That prompted a huge discussion between the two of us, where I asked him to honor the commitment he made to me, and where he ratioanlized that it was important for him to use the second build.

Germany's timely implication, and Turkey's extremely stridency, almost to the point of rudeness, about the build, fucked with my head. My gut said - align with Germany and turn on Turkey immediately. But the discussions with Turkey, while pointed, were also thorough and well reasoned on both sides. So, I swallowed my doubts about Turkey and linked my fortune to him anyway. But I also decided I would not aggressively pursue Germany - basically a wait and see, let's hold on.

That really killed me. I'm way better with pressing momentum than shoring up my position and defending. And indeed, I made a series of errors, failing to use my units to hold the line, failing to hold the line effectively, and after a bit of a deadlock, I collapsed within a couple of years.

Through the period of collapse, I mentioned to Germany that the game was a bit boring, which Turkey had mentioned to me and Germany himself had mentioned in the forum. I figured that my comment would find a receptive audience but Germany actually gave me a pretty dickish response, which really hardened my opinion against him (we had been fighting of course, but I wasn't all that into it, and we kept discussing how we could resolve and back down from the fight).

That dickish comment, plus Turkey's ultimate true intention with our alliance, saw me encouraging Turkey and his rise over our common French-German adversaries. But eventually I got over my pissiness with Germany because he warmed me up with some of his friendly chatter, and thinking back on his well-timed implication of Turkey's untrue conviction in 1904 made me really marvel at his ability to effectively unravel my alliance with Turkey.

So by 1909, I began to think favorably of Germany's skill, and mire ire shifted much more toward Turkey. I was a bit pissy about having blown the game, and while the fault was mine, I felt I never should have been in such a paralyzed position from 1904-1906, and felt stupid that I hadn't stuck to my guns about that Turkish build. So, I agreed to turn on Turkey.

Anyway, I bounced around for a bit after that, moving here and there without too much aim or purpose, whatever someone else told me to do basically. And I was gloriously killed off toward the end of the game.

The lesson I will take from this game is that I will be much less forgiving of an ally going back on his word. If I were to play this game again, I would not have accomodated Turkey's build and declared war on Turkey in Spring of 1905. But, live and learn!

Was good to play against a high level of competition, that is for sure!
redhouse1938 (429 D)
04 May 12 UTC
I'm sorry if I was rude; the reason I was a little annoyed by your request at the time was that you had 8 SCs and, like you said, no real enemies, while I had 5 SCs and Italy was having some kind of blood feud with me about naval control, while his empire was being destroyed by an alliance I had nothing to do with. My personal mistake was promising not to build to begin with, an amateur's mistake from my side.
gregoire (100 D)
04 May 12 UTC
You don't have to apologize :P
semck83 (229 D(B))
08 May 12 UTC
This will be brief and low-quality in comparison -- I'm sorry. But that will be in keeping with my play in this game. :-P

As redhouse suggested, I agreed to play in this game with the understanding that I wouldn't have much time to devote to it and wouldn't communicate that much. That indeed happened. Moreover, it came near the end of a four-game streak in which I was Italy or Austria in every game -- so it started going downhill right away, and I have trouble fully distinguishing it in my mind from the rest of them. Sorry.

But here's what I remember or can gather from looking at messages.

Italy and I started with a good relationship, and an alliance was the plan. I was moderately nervous about his move north, needless to say, and then became pretty alarmed in the spring of '02 when he sent another unit up, with still no firm attack on Turkey in sight. He made it clear shortly thereafter that he really was there to attack Germany. Nonetheless, as my eastern front was collapsing (see below), Italy had never really turned out to be that helpful as an ally, so I decided to go ahead and move on him when I had the chance. He's quite right that this wasn't a very smart thing to do, but then, I'm not convinced I had a lot of options by that time. Russia had reached Serbia, and Turkey was kind of promoting this line of moves. All in all, the attack on Italy was a mistake, as he said, and my later apologies were sincere, though futile.

Turkey has the honor of having sent me the oddest message I've ever received in webdip. Early on he sent me a lengthy analysis and request for friendship. I responded fairly briefly. I wanted to be friends with Italy, not him, and I didn't have time to put a lot of time into a fake friendship.

He then sent me another message asking for my analysis of the board position (spring 1902 I guess) to ensure that I really wanted to be friends. I thought, OK, you know what? What the heck. Turkey is putting a lot of time writing me these verbose messages, so maybe he really wants to be friends. Besides, Italy just moved into Piedmont, so maybe I could use him.

So I sent quite a long and detailed response, outlining a possible future alliance. I suggested an AIT at the end, but asked to hear his thoughts.

Then came the weird message. Turkey sent me a long message in which he started to respond to my analysis, and asked what concrete moves we would make next turn if we allied. Then -- in the same message -- he announced that he had changed his mind and was declaring war on me. I was frankly very annoyed that he had wasted my time, and responded curtly and irrelevantly.

He and Russia then did indeed start attacking me, but a few moves later, he expressed dissatisfaction with Russia and a desire again to ally. We did for a couple moves -- I turned on Italy -- and then he told me in spring 1904 that he had this ironclad intel that I should move to Tyrolia. I didn't really want to, but it seemed possible, so at the last minute I decided to take it. Bad call.

That, I must say, was a very nice move, Turkey, and led more or less directly to my demise.

Turkey then apologized for his stab and started trying to lay out our future moves. I muted him (my first time on webdip), simply because I could not envision any future scenario in which I would care about what he had to say, and I didn't want to waste any more of my time reading his missives.

Germany was pretty friendly, but there wasn't much he could do. My fault. I should have pursued a closer relationship there from the start.

The rest, I didn't talk to much.

Sorry all for the mediocre play. If I learned anything from this game, it was don't join a (classic, anyway) game just to be nice and help it make. The resulting subpar play has far too great an effect on everybody, so it's not really being nice in the first place.
semck83 (229 D(B))
08 May 12 UTC
(I mean, obviously -- on the last para -- if you don't have time to play it well).
semck83 (229 D(B))
08 May 12 UTC
Oh, and I guess I shouldn't neglect to mention France. France was briefly kind when I moved into Italy, but soon turned up to take it away, and there was little I could do. Strong play on France's part, seeing a weakness and being ready to take advantage of it. I didn't have voluminous communication with France, but what I got was well written and effective. I should not have placed myself in that position though.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
09 May 12 UTC
Ahhh yes I remember that message. :-)

I had a feeling that although we were having an intelligent conversation it might not get anywhere, a declaration of war seemed prudent to avoid loss of confidence. Unfortunately, in practice, it never works out like that :-(


32 replies
zultar (4180 DMod(P))
09 May 12 UTC
Carson Non-Daily Happy Birthdays
Lindsay Pavao should have been in the final and won the whole damn show...
Stupid American voting...
And oh, happy birthday to whoever.
0 replies
Open
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
08 May 12 UTC
What's So Great About This Move?
I've been working with Vaft on a more detailed Openings comparison for each country and I came across what appears to be an anomaly and I'm curious, of all the Turkish openings, which do you favor (S01 moves only) and what do you think about this: Con -> Bul, Smy -> Ank, Ank -> BLA?
37 replies
Open
brainbomb (290 D)
08 May 12 UTC
What goes on in the North (A Gunboat's tale)
As England, sometimes it can be quite mind numbing in a Gunboat to watch a powerful Turkey or Austria have a field day with inept adverseries all around. The reason why its so irritating is because often France, Germany and England waste many good years battling for ground to retake or steal a lone center like Belgium, Sweden, Holland, Denmark, Brest, Liverpool ect ect.
1 reply
Open
BJC27 (0 DX)
08 May 12 UTC
When a game drags on and on and on...
1922 lol, this has lasted way too long... I'm not saying what country I am, but this is ridiculous... gameID=88270
50 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
02 May 12 UTC
Will you be my friend?
I would like to play a game with people I've rarely or never played before. Standard Settings, Low Pot, 24-48hr, Non-anon.
I reserve the right not to be friends with you for any reason.
So, will you be my friend?
52 replies
Open
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