The topic I want to debate is: the morality of living in a high-consumption society, i.e., is it immoral to do so? If it is, how can you live in a high-consumption society morally?

If you don't understand the question I can clarify it a bit and get you thinking in the next post, but here are the rules.

There is a pro side, whose position is that living in a high consumption society is immoral, and a con side - it is not immoral.

The first three people to sign up for each side will be allowed to argue them. Everyone else can post, but not in reference to the content of the arguments or the topic, until the debate is over. I'll end it whenever I feel it's run its course.

Then we can take votes on who won and have EOGs and shit and the peanut gallery can comment. I'll moderate unless I'm needed to participate, we don't *strictly* need a moderator.

The debate will go as follows - you can post arguments all day long, the only rule is that if someone poses and question or challenges a point, that it be responded to. You cannot ignore each other.

So who's interested what do you guys think.

I also think the three people do not have to coordinate their arguments - they can take whatever tack they want, it doesn't have to be all the same approach - just argue your side.

When you do pose questions, to avoid confusion, please pose them directly TO a person, not just to a side, since no one will be sure who should answer.

Your subject has a few issues that make a proper debate hard:

* How do you define "high consumption"
* Is "consumption" something that can have be subject to morality

The latter appears to be an assumption baked into your argument, but isn't explicitly stated - but if you *do* explicitly state it, people on the pro-consumption side are basically going to have to state that's it is moral for them to be high consumers.

Technically a homeless guy in DC is living in a "high consumption society" compared to, say, Zimbabwae, but it's not like he or she is better off than Robert Mugabe.

If you then change the thesis to be "is it acceptible to be more weathly than other people", you get into the whole capitalism vs socialism argument - and despite the growing inequality in our society, we're a hell of a lot better off than that socialist paradise, Norh Korea...

So, it seems you would like clarification, which I will now provide.

High consumption just means living in a country, usually industrialized, but most world cities count, where the point of life and indeed almost the only "way to live" is by consuming a lot. Buying things and using them and throwing things away.

If you want to take con and argue the West is not a high consumption society, go for it.

Also, "living in a high consumption society" implies that you take part, say you live in an apartment in New York. It is related to income but you don't have to be *rich* to live in a high consumption society. Even American poor people consume a whole lot of say plastic bags, that happens here in Dakar too.

And then the other thing I was mentioning is that if you are pro and say that yes living like this is immoral, I would like for you to state how you believe someone can live in such a society morally, if possible. Like maybe being a homeless man, or whatever, it's not for me to say.

The ways in which you could argue living in a high consumption society is immoral are, for example: consuming a lot consumes more resources than we have for all the people that there are. Witness stats that say we'd need like 8 earths worth of resources for everyone to have an American lifestyle. There is also the environment angle - the more you consume the worse it is on the environment, there is waste produced and energy consumed to make things and resources depleted etc. There is the human angle - if I consume 5X, and you need X to survive, and there are people that have 0.5X, I could be construed as living immorally for not reducing my consumption.

Etc, again, I don't want to steer the debate necessary I just want to let you know what the topic I have in mind is.

alas i'm unable to choose a side. I fear i would have to be on my own side and support one or both arguements in turn depending on whether the arguements appeared valid to me... but that would result in a discussion instead of a debate.

good luck finding some competitors, i might enjoy this thread.

Is it important to you that the people on a side strongly believe in that side, or can they be ambivalent but willing to aggressively argue for a side for the purpose of debate?

The West *is* a high consumption society, but your q
question doesn't appear to be 'a high consumption lifestyle is immoral', it appears to be that merely *living* in a high consumption society is immoral, no matter how you choose to live. Is that correct?

That's something I want to leave open. You can argue that if you want, or you can say that it doesn't *have* to be, provided you show us how.

But the con people should all have in common that they do not believe our society is high consumption and/or believe there is nothing morally wrong with high consumption as it is manifested in today's world.

Semck you may choose which ever side you want you don't need to actually believe it as long as you think you can do the side justice, go.

I'm going to pass. There is a difference between a gray area and a broad brush, but the 'pro' side apparently have to agrue that a single mother of three living in a shelter is morally equivalent - from a consumption level - as some fatcat with a McMamsh

Fracking phone cut me off, but you get my point

OK then, I'll take the con side -- IF it's OK that I won't be around too much this afternoon, till this evening.

(You, Thucy, will have to decide on and adjudicate the "if" in my absence. I'm out of here!).

Please define the kind of society that is not high consumption? Is there electricity? Is there indoor plumbing? Are all homes hooked up to a purified water supply? Is there waste disposal?

Or are these "high consumption" items.

This is up to you to define - and then decide if our society is high consumption. Would you like to participate TC? I warn you, since we will be voting at the end, you may tarnish your side lol but I welcome your participation.

Semck I don't this will get rolling today so you are welcome to take the con side.

Pro:
[]

Con:
Semck

"the 'pro' side apparently have to agrue that a single mother of three living in a shelter is morally equivalent - from a consumption level - as some fatcat with a McMamsh"

No you don't have to. You are supposed to determine whether living in western society is immoral on account of high consumption, if you believe indeed it is high consumption, and say why. If you believe it is possible to live in western society without being immoral and you're on the pro side, I ask that you demonstrate how in terms of your own arguments.

I repeat my questions Thucy.
You need to clarify the vague premise you began the thread with or it is worthless.

He's leaving the clarifying to the debaters so they can manipulate it to however they like. That said, it's a very strange topic to choose.

Instead of asking just to clarify the whole thing, ask me to clarify specific points and I'm happy to, that said dD is correct that on several points I'd rather let people have their own ideas about it.

I did ask to to answer specific questions.

Is there electricity? Is there indoor plumbing? Are all homes hooked up to a purified water supply? Is there waste disposal?