Oh! A thread on Diplomacy strategy. How nostalgic.

From what I've read, the North Sea is one of the most important territories in the game. If England survives the game, that pretty much means he's kept it. After that I would suppose Germany and Russia would be the next, with Germany slightly more likely. France has other places to grow and is in a pretty unique position to snatch English centers without HAVING to hold the North Sea, but if a German/Russian fleet is in it a blue England is hard to keep.

England
Germany
France
Russia

in that order

I saw Italy hold it once.

If Italy gets around to controlling the North Sea, it's a good bet he's winning within a couple of years.

England, obviously, starts out with ownership of the North Sea. I would put France and Germany as equals in owning the North Sea afterward, though. Perhaps I am biased because my successful games as France have involved a northern-oriented game, but I feel that France must break into the North Sea and Scandinavia or into the Ionian Sea and Balkans if it is to have any shot at victory. Germany, of course, must own the North Sea at some point to win, as well.

Russian dominance of the North Sea is a luxury brought on by a combination of very strong diplomacy and solid early growth. Russian presence in the North Sea is obviously desirable for Russia, but not necessary for victory like with the Western powers. For Russia, ownership of Scandinavia and either Turkey or the Balkans is necessary to win; after that, his options include whichever of the latter two he didn't get before, Germany, and the North Sea region. In that sense, it's A way to win, not THE way to win as it is with the Western trio.

So I'd put it as

England
France/Germany
Russia

And it goes without saying that if any of the Mediterranean trio owns the North Sea, they're either trolling with a solitary unit or 17/17 drawing with someone else. No Mediterranean power should get to the North Sea because any one of the three should have already won by the time they could get there.

It is possible for Germany to win without North Sea so I'd say:

England
France
Germany
Russia

my list was in order of how often those powers come to posses it. how necessary it is to win was not part of my list.

but to rewrite the list in order of necessity to win, i'd agree with tankkrusher

however germany more often gets control of it from england on account of having usually holland denmark and hel.

france has only EC and Bel usually, and even that can be hard to get if england is any good

and that's no always true eden, there are times when italy expands northward through france and attack england rather than break alliance with austria and/or germany.

tadaa

gameID=2508

I can't see units. I'm also inclined to say that's the exception in western Italian play anyhow; Italy in the North Sea almost compels Germany to stab or settle for second place.

England has the greatest staying power. All sorts of points to defend the North Sea from the British Isles.
Russia the second - because of its ability to get into Norway, Skagerrak, and the Norwegian Sea.

Germany the third - using Skagerrak, Denmark, Holland, and if Germany achieves a breakthorugh in Norway.

France the least, because I think France needs to essentially subdue England before it can maintain a hold on the North Sea. France only really has the English Channel and Belgium to defend the North Sea, possibly Holland if Germany is weak.

I've never seen Italy in the North Sea, let alone holding it.

since it was me playing, i can tell you that yes, i was in the north sea.

the fleet was there precisely to prevent germany from taking away my possessions. his navy was weak in that game, and i capitalized.

Frankly I don't think the North Sea is important to hold onto except for England.
It helps out Russia a whole lot, because it solidifies Russia's hold on Scandinavia, but I don't think it's particularly important for Germany or France. German seapower is only important for getting control of Scandinavia and has enough access points without really needing the North Sea, and France can attack England through the Irish backdoor, so the North Sea isn't necessary.

Well if you hold it as F, G, R or E, then you are much safer and/or much better poised to take over the surrounding area.

If I am Russia and control Scand, I want north sea to keep a handle on Eng and Germany

If I Eng, I want North sea to protect myself

If I'm Germany, I want North Sea to prevent an invasion from England and/or to leverage control of the Low Countries or scand

If I'm France I want it to attack E or G.

I mean... it's pretty fucking important lol.

My opinion however is that the most important SC is Munich, the most important non SC is the Mid Atlantic.

Actually. Thread idea. Brb k thanks.

I disagree, Putin33. The North Sea is important for English centers, so if a late-game France owned all those centers holding the North Sea would be extremely important to keep out a late-game Russia or possible Germany.

Germany would take North Sea earlier, but for France is more important if he wants to win, unless hi makes an uncommon strategy

I disagree as well Putin33 from the German side of things. The North Sea owned by ENgland (France, or Russia) keeps German fleets effectively bottled up in the Baltic and relegates Germany to a central land power. For Germany to have any hope of taking English homeland centers or of eventually surrounding France it's pretty important. I just don't see it as life or death the way that it is for England.

The North Sea is the reason why England and Germany are natural enemies in diplomacy. And it is good for France.

I've won a game with France where I've been in the North Sea for only one turn. To reach Denmark!

Let's not forget that the North Sea is an absolutely vital convoy station if England is going to have any pretensions towards being an offensive player in the game.

Central land power is all you really need though. 3 German SCs + 2 low countries + 3 scandinavian + 3 home french SCs + 3 home russian SCs + a mix of Italian and Austrian SCs. Don't need English SCs or Iberian neutrals.

Now, having a North Sea fleet might help with breaking through France, but I think you have enough points to attack Holland and Belgium without it.

Not saying North Sea isn't vital for England, absolutely it is. But everybody else can take it or leave it.