Also, what, if anything, is the effect of jogging (in my case long distance) on weight lifting? I have been jogging 3-6 miles on the days I don't lift.

Also what is the effect if any of martial arts at the same time as the strength training? (Have been doing Krav Maga 3x/week as well).

So I assume this isn't sport specific? And there are other ways to be fit besides lifting, do you run or swim or bike at all?

That answers my question.

yeah its not sport specific

Are you trying to gain weight at all? When I needed more muscle I just kept increasing the weight as quickly as possible, and of course ate a whole lot. If you're trying to gain weight then increase the weight you lift as your body allows you to, if not then don't lift as much or as intensely. I gained weight for like 6 months, and once I got to where I wanted to be I went to lifting only twice a week, so more of a maintenance thing rather than change in either direction.

What you should do is determined by what you want to achieve, but since you're a college kid and seem to be in decent shape as it is, general fitness is a pretty attainable goal. Youth does that for us:]

i dunno. i'm thinking more fat-burned, replaced by muscle to retain current weight

6'4'' 180lbs

Jesus, I'm 5'9" and I was like 170 and still skinny as hell. You can't possibly have too much fat if you're that tall and only weigh 180.

Go buy and read Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe and Lon Kilgore. If you are too cheap for that, www.stronglifts.com has good info too.

Actually, CrossFit might be a good fit for your all-around-fitness goal.

Is that an internet 6'4" or a real one? (bare feet, hair pressed down, accurate measurement made by someone else using decent equipment)

There is an interesting history attached to this particular height. It has been shown that a majority of claimants are in fact significantly shorter.

A real 6'4" at 180 would be in the bean pole category: normal for a youth, enviable for an old fart.

I'm 5'11" and my doctor says 190 is a good goal for me (250 now, but 300 at my peak). 180 and over 6'? You need to *gain* weight (not fat, but muscle weight obviously).

6'4" and 180 lbs? As an avid lifter measuring 6'2" and weighing 225 lbs, I'm going to assume you're trying build muscle and gain weight.

You do that by eating a high-calorie, high protein diet and lifting with heavy weight and low reps.

As for running and other forms of exercise, it shouldn't impede your progress much if at all and it will keep you from hitting the common problem of gaining as much fat as you do muscle.

no i'm really 6'4'' lol promise.

i used to weigh 150 but went up as a result of this.

my BMI is in the range of healthy. i think i dont want to be heavier than 200, ever. i mean... yeah. i'd like to remain lean

and yes i need to gain weight i guess, but how does one do that without gaining fat?

well. hmm.

is there a way you can burn the fat in specific parts of your body, using a scalpel instead of a hatchet as it were?

or do you just have run and burn it all off? i mean, i can do that... i just want to know



for the record i know i need to gain weight. you don't have to worry about me being anorexic or something. i eat about 2700 calories a day.

1) BMI is crap. Forget about it.

2) 200 is not even close to overweight for someone who is 6'4" and regularly lifts weights

3) There is no such thing as spot reduction. Your body burns fat from all parts at the same time. You may notice some areas seem to shrink faster than others, but that is determined purely by your body make-up and has nothing to do with the type of workout you do.

3) is part correct and part not correct:

you cannot do spot reductions (without a scalpel)...

but the body does not burn all fat deposits equally. There are fats stores that build up around organs (brown fat) that are the first to go during extended exercise/lack of food... I am afraid the belly stuff and its equivalent are notoriously hard to shift.

ah. ok. i dunno. i feel like 180 is a lot, but that may just be because i've been 150 for so long. i know 200 isn't overweight, i just dont want to go much heavier than that. i dont really want to be that big

How old are you? That does seem to be the key question here...

When weight lifters/athletes talk about high-protein intake do y'all mean Atkins style (high-protein, low-carb) or simply a regular diet with added protein?

19 haha i neglected that. sorry. yeah.

also.. i have read that too much protein intake can actually impede muscle growth, that i shouldn't exceed like 100 grams/day

What MonsterMatt said. I can also recommend www.stronglifts.com. Basically you need to lift 1x bodyweight on bench and 1.5x bodyweight on squats, that would be a good shape

180 on bench!!! holy shiiiiiiii

lol. im already at 150% bw on squat though

Try P90X

"i dunno. i'm thinking more fat-burned, replaced by muscle to retain current weight"

^Won't happen. Put on weight by eating more, especially protein and lifting. You'll get some fat added, but if you then lose some weight by taking about a month off of lifting, you'll reduce your fat total by a lot and it will be mostly muscle.

Running is fine, but you need to keep up with your calorie intake.

Protein you can go really up to 180 grams without a problem. I would advocate going up to 150 and not exceeding 180 grams.

I would also say that the periodization is a bunch of cr@p. Lift as heavy as you can at 6-8 reps. Doing bench and squats at 3 reps will do very little for you. Get those reps up to 6 at least, you'll see much better gains.

Thucy...

Given your age, your body will change a lot quite naturally.

With regard to special formula diets and weight regimes, you might want to ask yourself whether you want to go much farther down that road? You could become a prisoner to your development - not only in the time taken to build yourself but also in the need to maintain the schedule to stay where you are when you get there.

As a student (?) now you might have the time. What about when a career kicks in?

Incidentally, I am waiting for the creatine crowd to show up in here...

creatine sucks as do all stimulants... stick to doing it naturally... its a lot safer and a lot cheaper

@thucy- I really don't know what you should do next, but i've decided that because we are the same body type, weight and height and age all aprox the same, i will have to try your plan. i've been wanting to do some strength training but never had the motivation, and really i don't need it I am quite fit and i kill endurance wise :)

but thanks now i can gain some muscle weight and get out of this 150 range :)

Creatine certainly does suck when used for image building via lumps and bumps - snapped tendons come to mind as muscle strength outstrips development of the attachments. My reference was a hint at the way in which this thread could easily slip into the world of excessive building...

A tale for the younger ones out there.

I was in a bar not so very long ago and (shame to admit) a countryman of mine appeared: t-shirt, some tattoos and a biceps/triceps combination that just about matched a delivery man. Somewhat underwhelming given his medium stature and persistent approaching of the females to do his Popeye impersonation with bent arm. "Look at this" was his mantra as if it were an irresistible demonstration of his super-alpha-male status.

I was so pissed off with it all - especially as he kept passing in front of where I was standing that I just took out my wallet (greatly swollen by a load of vouchers for M & S), held it up and said, "Look at this". It got a pretty good laugh and a lot of knowing smiles from the ladies.

Of course, I was just reacting to a Class One prick, but there is a moral in the story...

You could definitely stand to gain some weight. I'm 5'10'', 185lbs and perfectly healthy. Your program seems to be a good one but seems a little too repetitive. I would suggest you change the sets in your first phase to 12 reps each. It's the long sets that build the most muscle. That's called the hypertrophy phase. In your second phase, instead of doing 3x8 (3 sets, 8 reps) for 4-6 weeks, try doing 3x8 for two weeks, 3x4 for another two and 4x3 for the last two, going up in weight all the time. Then again, I'm getting this from a football-oriented workout, designed to build strength, mass and explosivity, which isn't necessarily whate veryone's looking for in a workout. Also, drink protein shakes (and only protein shakes, someone our age doesn't need anything else unless they're into some intense sport), you need to gain weight.

lmao flashman that's a pretty good story..

yeah i dont want to get huge by any means, i just think that increased strength can and will improve my heath significantly.

i am totally down with spending a good portion of time on this like... for the rest of my life. as you get older (i've learned... don't want to sound didactical to anyone), your muscle breaks down faster and faster the less you use it and is replaced by fat faster and faster.

explaining why so many old people are so frail. obviously you can't completely prevent that but you can slow it down and be healthier longer. that's my real goal.

which is why i reject supplements. if this is about my health... why would i feed myself something unnatural? i am willing to try a protein shake.. but only if i knew a lot about its ingredients.

i understand what you mean about "going down this road" flashman. i do. but i don't think that's my style... especially since i have never been the "athletic" type. didn't play any sports in school. like... yeah. never even been on a formal team.

so i am totally willing, moral of the story, to spend up to 1.5-2 hours a day on fitness type stuff (that would be the max though lol). i think it's definitely worth it to have the strength to take on a challenge or lift something heavy or just be more effective at your everyday life.

and it's always nice to train up so i can smoke the competition on the ultimate frisbee field. i will admit that it was a drive to dominate in ultimate that originally got me into physical fitness lol.

"Put on weight by eating more, especially protein and lifting. You'll get some fat added, but if you then lose some weight by taking about a month off of lifting, you'll reduce your fat total by a lot and it will be mostly muscle. "

can you explain that statement more clearly patizcool i didnt quite understand

also i would like to stick with periodization in some form or another just because i am not just looking to increase strength, increase mass, or increase endurance, or increase power. i'm looking to do all of that lol. so... i think periodization is the best plan. is it not?

anyway... i think i will try for one more phase a few weeks long of really high weight and just about as many reps as i can... do i guess.

then i'll return to the beginning with 12 reps this time instead of 10 and higher weight overall. sound good... or did i miss everyone's point?

oh yeah and i'll eat more haha

It has been said: StrongLifts.com 5X5 program will give you immense strength, fast. You need to eat to gain muscle unless you are already big. Make sure you ALWAYS have good technique, especially with deadlifts and squats (take a vid and watch it... show others that know what they are doing). Make sure you have complete control in addition to good technique when you lift. Lift to failure, give at least a day for healing (remember, muscles grow when they heal, not when you lift).

Someone mentioned P90X, but unless you are in FABULOUS cardio shape, I'd avoid it. P90X is hardcore for those that can handle a boatload of intensity and need lots of endurance, but if you HAVE the cardio, then P90X can cut you up pretty damn fast.

I'm the type that researches the HELL out of stuff. There is a book on doing a full body workout NO MORE than 3 times a week that really plays on the 'you get muscle from healing' concept. It is an interesting, but different, workout. I tried it for a bit, and it was odd. Full body workout in ~30 minutes, only one set (two if you have a warmup set), extremely intense, extremely slowly (especially the negative). Good if you don't have tons of time. I can get you the name of the book if you'd like.

I don't do a huge amount of straight weight training but I do do some Muay Thai Kick-Boxing/MMA stuff along with kenpo karate. Kickboxing and MMA is *amazing* for cardio, so I personally would just recommend it for that along with the fact that it teaches you how to throw punches correctly and (at my dojo) how to box in general. I personally haven't done anything with Krav Maga, but in general martial arts relies alot less on strength and much more on precision. Obviously having strong, precise, hits is ideal, but it does put less emphasis on the power than kickboxing does so I'd recommend you do the kickboxing.

What is so wrong about Thucy's weight?

unless I'm corverting it wrong...
can you give it in Kg/cm?

And draugnar, you are really heavy mate :P

@Troodonte - not as bad as you think for a 44 year old with a hypo-active thyroid. The doc says I'm doing good considering my thyroid condition. And I am still active: play paintball, walk to lunch (15 minutes or so) with the guys without getting winded, pitch softball, even run bases although that will wind me if I have to go two or more bases at full steam.

if my conversor is correct I'm:

132lb
5,87ft

I know I'm thin, but healthy :)

that is
60Kg
179cm

5'10" and 132? Wow! That is beyond thin!

oh and Draugnar, I am aware of your condition and what it causes.
Anyway, it is possible to get it lower (weight) if you have the tyroid hormones levels controled and get a diet/exercise program that is adequate to your condition.

But I suppose you already know about this :)

That is so thin the US Armed Forces would barely accept you and the DI's in the Marines would put you on a high calorie diet to bulk you up along with extra PT.

Yes, it is. The problem is the Diabetes makes some of those even harder. I am on meds for the thyroid and have lost 50 lbs in the last 2 years, so I'm halfway to my goal of 200.

haha, Draug I'm 5' 10" and can't break 130. =P

Haha yeah about a year ago I was considering the Army... and I thought to myself... the only problem is I am probably way to scrawny for their taste.

They might take me now though.

However my goals are completely different now. So I'd never join. Lol.

Yeah like I said I'm not looking for much over 200lbs. Anything above 220 would bother me.

Marine standards in the mid 80s, 5'11" 127 lbs minimum was the standard for my height. I went in the Corps at 5'10.5" and 129 lbs. They round up on the inches so I *just* made it. Now I weigh almost twice that, but then I lead a sedentary life of computers and poker.