@ck- I'll be back on in an hour or 2 to respond to you if you post about my statement. I have a feeling that it was just a lack of clarity on my part that is causing you to take it in a way I didn't mean for it to be(So it's a my bad), Because I feel like we actually share relatively similar opinions on this.

Dip and I are both from Tennessee, but, we are not from exactly the same culture either.

I live deep in East Tennessee, which is more of a Mountain Culture, than true southern culture.

Yes, we are Southerners.in many ways, but I find that I have more in common with someone from West Virginia than I do from say, Memphis.

Remember, I am from EasternKentucky Originally, and I think this is why I like East tennessee, as it is familar to me, where as South Georgia is not so much. Yes, same foods and such, but there is a difference that I can not put my finger on between Applachian Southerners and Flatlanders.

Agreed.

Yeah, Appalachia is more a culture all it's own. Same thing happens with Eastern versus Northern versus Central and Southwestern Kentucky. Lexington/Lousiville and on down the Ohio have a more southern feel, Northern is more or less Cincinnati, and Eastern is Appalachia.

SL are you in the state of Franklin?

Butterhead that might be the case. Here is the phrase I was particularly responding to: "The Confederate flag in this day and age is still the Symbol of the South." It's a symbol, I would say, for a very small portion of the South, and the fact that so many people confuse the Confederacy or the Confederate flag for even a plurality of southern opinion is part of the problem.

butterhead: Or to put it another way -- there is definitely a southern culture (or more accurately southern cultures) much different from what Jack Klein says --on that we agree. But I disagree that the Confederate flag is or should be a symbol of that.

NOT QUITE, franklin is further north, in that NE corner near Virginia. I am more in the area of Ocoee and Reliance Tennessee

I am from Pike County Kentucky which is the location of the hatfield and McCoys (part ofthe fight at least) to give you an idea of my raising.

Let me be clear. Being Southern and proud of it is not an admission of support for the Confederacy and certainly not of Slavery in general.

@ck- ok I see what you are saying. I will rephrase my statement for better clarity for what I was Intending to say...
The confederate flag is A(not THE, that was poor word choice) Symbol of The South and Southern Culture. While there are many different types of Culture in the South, they all have SOME unifying characteristics, so I do not feel I am incorrect in saying that the flag is a symbol in some form of all Southern Culture, however it does not Symbolize all Southern Culture completely.
@ck- does that work a little bit better for you?

If you choose to symbolize your culture with the flag of traitors, then don't act shocked when people think you're glorifying traitors.

Pick something else.

Also:

http://visualizingeconomics.com/blog/2010/02/17/federal-taxes-paidreceived-for-each-state

Kentucky, Virginia, Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi. All in the top ten of highest ratio of federal dollars versus taxes paid. And you actually can't find a Deep South state that pays as much or more in federal taxes than it receives in federal funds. (The only arguably Southern states that do are Texas and Florida. And Florida isn't exactly a bastion of "southern" culture)

I'm amused. Such bastions of Yankeedom as Connecticut and New York pay far more in taxes than they receive.

But yes, your culture is great. Sure. I've become pro-secession at this point. South, you have my permission to rise again. The rest of the country would be better off.

@Jack_Klein- Who is glorifying traitors? last I checked, nobody here said that the South needed to leave the Union or any of that shit. We have all had a discussion on what the Confederate flag means Vs. What it is perceived to mean... Agree or Disagree if you wish, but don't act as if you are the only person who can be right. Because real life lesson for you, you aren't. We all have opinions here. And right or wrong, you aren't going to change anybody's opinion via online forum arguments. Just like I can't change your opinion. I am a Southerner... A Texan but raised in Virginia. I am also someone who, should the Southern states ever leave the Union again, would leave the South in a heartbeat in support of keeping the states together. And you say the rest of the country would be better off, I say bullshit... The United States would fall apart if the South left, or the North, or the West, or the East, or the Middle states... without our Unity as a nation, the nation would fall. Let me point you towards a VERY well known set of words that I for one stand behind every time I have ever said it:

"I pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."

Note the key words, ONE NATION and INDIVISIBLE... you saying the USA would be better without the South is like saying that Diplomacy is a game of luck. It's complete BS.

Jack when I get to a laptop those sites tend to be a bit skewed I cant copy and paste to read it now but generally whne I read those they generallyleave all social welfare out and add in federal land management and military base upkeep and salaries to troops stationed there into them

Not saying yoursite iswromg or right just I have seen them misplace a lot of numbers usually to make them look how they want it to look

All of those states have hige federal lands and large military bases minus miss. Is that included into the federal money?

Admit to not reading the thread. We had this debate on a state level just before the 1996 Olympics (at the time I thought it was funny that the proposed flag was/is every bit as Confederate as the old one). My stance is this:

1) I can completely understand how the old Georgia State flag was a slap in the face to people who had to live with segregation and worse in the south. A state flag should stand for all of its citizens not just a few. Yes the old flag was a slap in the face to civil rights movement that's exactly why it was voted in as the state flag in 1956.

2) Displaying it as a personal choice for whatever reason is completely that. I would no more consider a kid wearing a Dixie Outfitters shirt a racist than I would consider one a thug for wearing a thug for life T-shirt. People wear and display all sorts of stuff for many different reasons.

SO yeah, as a state symbol no.

as a personal item, sure whatever.

Just don't be an idiot about it either way.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not proposing anybody pass a law forbidding the display of any flag. We have freedom of speech.

But I am going to exercise mine, and call you out if you want to slap the flag of traitors on your car or yourself.

And if you don't want to be associated with a pack of racist traitors, then maybe you should find another symbol of your culture.

Again jack a I live here and was born in a border state I see them a lot I never consider the owners a racist in any way I understand it you think you do

Hey jack how would an Indian or Mexican look at Old Glory? Perhaps you regard the seccessionist flying of the Republic of Lakota as the act of a traitor? I guess that it all depends on your perspective. Here is another one for you -
http://www.republicoflakotah.com/steps-to-sovereignty/158-year-stuggle-for-justice/

Don't feed the troll

I guess that is directed at me. If a troll is someone who provokes someone else to think, then thank you for the complement. If you mean someone who goes off topic - hardly. Flags, secession, treachery, racism etc., all very much on topic. Feeding trolls seems to mean, in your case, curling up in the foetal position, sticking your fingers in your ears and crying at the top of your voice "can't hear you, can't hear you....."

I meant Jack, actually

Yeah everyone, I think SYnapse has the right idea here. Jack Klein is not trying to be fair or have a conversation; he is trolling to ruin what had been a very interesting discussion. I feel a little silly for having fallen for it in the first place.