>Against whom did he "snitch?"

Sorry to break in upon a thread that I haven't been following, but this is widely accepted: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orwell%27s_list

(Not to say that there aren't arguments as to why his snitching was a perfectly appropriate thing to do, of course.)

Snitching! What a connotation; proof that language can shape thought. I mean, snitching is bad, but then, why call it that in the first place? Because you've made your judgment ex ante.

Yeah I thought the whole Newspeak idea was brilliant. If people literally don't have the words to foment rebellion then... holy shit. You know?

Anyway. I think A Brave New World is more relevant now. Especially in a country like America which is completely mired in consumption and profligacy, where pursuing happiness is the utmost goal. It goes along nicely to read Andrew Bacevich's "The Limits of Power" right after, especially if you're an American.

Watch
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/08152008/profile.html
for a bit more.

The bad part of Brave New World was the plot. The world Huxley created was so interesting and compelling, and then the last third of the book or so steers off into a boring story about that Savage. Still a great piece of literature, but ultimately unsatisfying.

Without words to foment rebeloin a person can still think how much better it would be with a different system and if this idea catches on you get rebelion

The thing I enjoyed most about Brave New World was Huxley's whole idea of "Conditioning" all the children at education facilities. And it's scarily like what we do with our public school system. Kids spend half a day being barraged with ideologies, ideas, and mindsets so that after 12 years of that they think exactly how they're supposed to.

Orwell snitched on his own friends and associates for the British secret police because he was in love with a spook. He also wasn't fond of blacks or Jews. But since many of you don't have a problem with the Holocaust, I'm sure you'll enjoy Orwell even more for that.

Did you really just say "spook"?

How many Jews did the Soviets kill, again?

You guys need to stop feeding this awful troll.

Ah yes, you are correct Invictus. Ferdinand was only the heir to the throne, the geezer Franz Josef was Emperor at the time. My apologies for the glaring error.

The Soviets ended the Tsarist pogroms, and much of the top leadership of the USSR were Jews. They also saved the Jews from annihilation at the hands of your friends the Nazis, something which you have stated makes no difference to you.

Inviticus I think he means "spook" as in spy.

"Yeah I thought the whole Newspeak idea was brilliant. If people literally don't have the words to foment rebellion then... holy shit. You know?"

If people don't have the words they'll make them up. We make up words all the time - as Steven Pinker says lanuage is an instinct. Human create language like spiders make webs.

I actually do think though that English is a very non-specific language. Atleast compared to greek, which has something like 4+ ways of saying "love".

Really? I have always thought that English was one of the most specific languages. We have so many synonyms due to the way English constantly absorbs words from other languages. My Spanish friends always tell me that with English you can always find *exactly* the right word, in comparison to Spanish.

BTW, "Animal Farm" was plagiarized from Nikolai Kostomorav's Animal Riot. A terrible writer, he couldn't even produce original material.

Putin - do you know what plagiarism is?

pla⋅gia⋅rism  /ˈpleɪdʒəˌrɪzəm, -dʒiəˌrɪz-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [pley-juh-riz-uhm, -jee-uh-riz-] Show IPA
Use plagiarism in a Sentence
See web results for plagiarism
See images of plagiarism
–noun 1. the unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's own original work.
2. something used and represented in this manner.

It has to be nealry word for word to be plagiarism. Stealing ideas and expanding on them is NOT plagiarism. I'm not saying Animal Farm was an original concept, but the short story, The Animal Riot, is a different storyline from Animal Farm and Animal Farm borrows no language from The animal Riot. It isn't plagiarism.

Just like I could invent a game based on the exact same set of rules as Diplomacy and if I made a different map, and wrote the rule book differently, I could legally sell it.

and to spyman, I don't really know how it relates to spanish. But I do know that greek from around the first century is extremely descriptive, regarding connotations and things like that.

Copyright law doesn't have anything to do with whether someone plagiarized. If you used copyright law (as it pertains to games) to define plagiarism, then nothing would be plagiarism. The content of the main speeches are nearly identical in the two stories.

But whatever word you want to call stealing the plotline, characters, main speeches and overall idea, is fine by me.

Is Putin our new troll????? Hurray!

Or are the trolls the people who, in virtually every thread, shout TROLL when they pathetically give up in a discussion.

I want to know how Draugnar knows the two stories are different enough. Do you read Russian, Draugnar? Here is the story, for anyone interested. http://orwell.ru/library/others/Skotskoj_Bunt/russian/r_sb

I have a Russian friend, Yevgeny Smolyanski, who has taught me some Russian. But my knowledge of that story is readily gleaned through research papers published on this interweb thingy.

lol i wasn't really part of this discussion putin. you can read my post if you want though. didn't have much to do with orwell or jews. sorry. hahaha i'm just looking forward to the day when someone goes off the deep-end again.

Putin, I have to salute you. Are you *actually* in the Former Soviet Republic of something, or just a Putinista from some other place? :-)

It's extremely rare that I learn anything online anymore, or even learn anything at all. But you're right. I've read every one of Orwell's published words, and two biographies of him, but obviously I read it all before 1996 (which is true, come to think of it). And he was, it turns out, a snitch. Go figure. Not sure I care yet, but I'm impressed to be surprised all the same.

I have a Ukrainian friend who grew up under Soviet rule, I find his perspectives often sound like trolling, but on closer inspection are really just perspectives. I'll PM you my e-mail if you want to bang the nail into Orwell's coffin any further.

- R.III

Hey, look at that child being abused!

-words of a snitch

See how language works so viciously?

Sure, absolutely. But as a lifelong Orwell fan, I'm more than a little surprised to learn that the Orwell I know and love would provide any information of any kind to any government agency, given his experience in Spain and how much the notion of treachery informed his hatred of the Stalinists to being with. I'm not saying I'll never touch the guy's books again, but it's enough of a shock that I'm more than prepared to acknowledge the word "snitch" is one that even EB himself might apply, under the circumstances. "England My England" didn't include pining praise for being an informant to the security services.