"My concern is that a teacher with a captive audience of children could derail a math class into a provocative discussion of gay marriage, and if a child says anything remotely unorthodox to the dogma of total equality then that child would be pilloried." - I suppose that is possible. It's also possible the space station will suddenly an unexpectedly fall out of orbit and crush someone, or that pigs will fly. The fact is that anti-LGBT prejudice is still much, much more common, especially in places like Tennessee, than militant pro-LGBT enforcement of equality.

This tactic of saying you don't support something, but then going to make arguments in favor of it, inventing these scenarios of math teachers taking a break out of their lesson plan to make speeches about how it's great to be gay, is transparently dishonest. You can claim you're anti-bullying and claim you're against this bill, but all of your *concern* seems to be with children who somehow might be condemned by the mythical PC police. You express no concern whatsoever with troubled gay teens who are looking for answers from their teachers about how to deal with their sexuality. You express no concern whatsoever that this bill would deprive gay pre-teens of the same instruction afforded to heterosexual pre-teens.

But please go ahead and repeat for the 500th time that I'm somehow twisting your words and that you "don't support the bill, but think they have a point that homosexuality shouldn't be discussed". This has become beyond tedious.

Are you equally concerned with gay teens "right" to denounce traditional marriage without being disciplined by their traditionalist instructors? Why aren't you concerned with math teachers interrupting their class to go into speeches about heterosexual lifestyles? How is banning sex from being taught or discussed at all a reasonable solution to this supposed "problem" that you've invented in your imagination? How do you sympathize with the authors of this bill at all?

School is meant for much much more important things than making fags and dykes feel good about themselves. Fags and dykes getting bullied is simply natural selection at work. There's nothing wrong with it. In fact, some high-school aged fags have even been known to commit suicide, as a result of the bullying. There should be academic scholarships awarded to the fine upstanding young students who bully a fag, when that fag commits suicide.

How do I express no concern for troubled teens when I say they should talk to the teacher in private? How do I express no concern of the deprivation of instruction when I said way earlier that an appropriate time to talk about matters like this is health class?

This is exactly the reason this topic shouldn't be in the classroom. It degenerates either into a neanderthal argument over how wicked people are based on what they decide to do with their naughty bits or a puritanical witch hunt against anyone who would dare to advocate a grudging tolerance rather than blanket acceptance. There's no reason to have that in the classroom. Protect gays (and all students) from bullying? Yes. Not prevent a student and teacher from having a conversation in private about this? Of course. But don't have some debate on homosexuality take up class time.

Really, is this so crazy?

Do you have no shame, mapleleaf?

thanks maple, your contribution is peerless as usual.

I do see what you mean Invictus, but A) I don't think that will be the effect of this law (and I trust you understand that, which is why you don't support it) and B) I resent this idea that somehow anything pertaining to "the gay" must remain in private. I mean obviously high school students shouldn't out themselves in a classroom or whatever, but at the same time, support only ever expressed in private, is only marginally better than no support at all. And what if a high school student says something very hateful or offensive, and believe me high school students can say things so awful even mapleleaf would be taken aback, I realize math class is not the time for debates about homosexuality, but it hardly seems like an appropriate time to let hate speech slide either...

"How do I express no concern for troubled teens when I say they should talk to the teacher in private?"

Ok not no concern, just very little concern. Because your first, second and third concern has been with people who don't accept the so-called 'dogma' of equality. That and the fact that you keep saying the bill who implemented this bill 'have a point', instead of denouncing it for the shameful discriminatory gag order it imposes on information for gay students (there I go with the 'dogma' of equality again). You obsess over the hurt feelings of so-called traditionalists and whine endlessly about the PC police, the hurt feelings of gay students who face a much more oppressive atmosphere barely register.

"But don't have some debate on homosexuality take up class time."

Where is this epidemic of debates about "homosexuality" that you keep bitching about? This doesn't happen. Where are conservative students being "pilloried" for their views? No where except in your mind. This isn't even what the bill is addressing. But for whatever reason you want to keep ignoring the injustice of this bill and invent a sense of grievance for the very people causing the mischief in schools in the first place.

I wouldn't want straight students talking about heterosexuality in the classroom either.

The world doesn't owe anyone a life without unpleasantness. If a student says something hurtful then that's certainly wrong and the target should do something about it, but at the same time it's just a couple of words someone said in high school. Once it crosses a line into real abuse then serious actions must be taken, but there's something to be said for thickness of skin.

Ah yes, the privilege perspective of "it's just words, they don't really matter." I wonder if you'd say that to a black student if someone called him "the N word" or a jewish student if another one called her by a slur? No, of course not. Because racism is wrong, but hating gay people? Well that's a personal belief.

Putin33, if you can't find common ground with me on this then you can't find it with anyone who doesn't exactly mirror your views.

The only people who want to impose their worldview on a captive audience of children are the conservatives trying to manipulate school curriculum so they can brainwash children into being ignorant, unthinking, Bible thumping automatons. Anybody who stands in their way is an evil secularist. Now any effort to point out that there are people in this world other than heterosexuals and any values out there other than Christian values is apparently too much for conservatives to handle. But yet they're the ones who always whine about being 'indoctrinated' and 'discriminated against' when they don't get their way.

A great idea, I think, would be to have "Humiliate a Fag" days at school. The kids could play all kinds of fun games, like pouring Krazy Glue into a fag's asshole to permanently cure him of his depravity. That would be really cool.....

Wow, Mafialligator. I actually would say that to a black or Jewish student. It's a matter of intensity. Surely there's a difference between a toss away insult about some stereotype and, say, throwing pennies at the Jewish kid (that happened to a college friend of mine as a kid). Once's a painful part of growing up, the other's an unacceptable form of abuse. You can't expect everyone to be nice to you all the time and eventually there won't be a principal to complain to. Kids are cruel, and that won't change.

"Once it crosses a line into real abuse then serious actions must be taken, but there's something to be said for thickness of skin."

Let me guess, this is your idea of showing concern for bullying.
So gays have to tough it up and grow thicker skin. But the law and the education system are supposed to go out of our way to protect the feelings of anti-gay students, and therefore must ban any debates on "homosexuality". And conservatives can't be expected to sit through a lecture without crying home to mommy about liberal bias.

"Putin33, if you can't find common ground with me on this then you can't find it with anyone who doesn't exactly mirror your views."

Right, of course. Because your views on this issue are so eminently reasonable.

"Kids are cruel, and that won't change." - Ugh, yes but, and here's a crazy idea, what if we lived in a world where things like sexuality, race, ethnicity or religion, weren't things people made fun of each other for? I realize that's kinda utopian, but the only way we're going to get even remotely close to that is if we stop going out of our way to try and protect deeply prejudiced opinions. Because yeah, the kids only bully each other, but adults do much much worse. And you know what, you can say, grow a thicker skin all you want, but given the rather high suicide rate among gay teens, I'd say the problem goes beyond one or two people being overly sensitive.

the troll is dangling a line for Draugnar, i hope he doesn't bite.

This man is pushing 50 everyone, Im sure Canada is proud...

No, not the law. I wouldn't support the bill.

I wouldn't want the homosexuality debates to be in the classroom primarily because it takes up time which would be better spent with real learning. I also don't like the idea of a teacher imposing their personal opinions on the class. If the issue was creationism we'd agree on this, but as usual this is an issue you happen to be especially interested in right now so different standards apply.

I would think my views are pretty reasonable, but it's not terribly surprising that a Stalinist graduate student would disagree.

Mafia simpered,...."but given the rather high suicide rate among gay teens, I'd say the problem goes beyond one or two people being overly sensitive"
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It's not a problem at all. It's natural selection. I salute these faggy suicides. At least they have the good grace to kill themselves, rather than lead an embarrassing faggy life.

Of course I'm not biting. I knew exactly what maple was doing. But I think he was trolling everyone, not just me.

"what if we lived in a world where things like sexuality, race, ethnicity or religion, weren't things people made fun of each other for?"

We won't. Never will happen. Children should be prepared to live in the world as it is, not be sheltered from unpleasantness until it crashes in on them after graduation. As for high suicide rates among gay teens, that's when this goes too far and action needs to be taken. Probably a lot more action needs to be taken. But the fact remains that people will always call each other mean names and part of growing up is learning to deal with that. It sucks, but that's just the way it is.

Yes, prejudice will never go away, so we should never fight it? That's a terrible argument.

"I wouldn't want the homosexuality debates to be in the classroom primarily because it takes up time which would be better spent with real learning."

HAHAHAHAHAHA... Tennessee School system... Real learning... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

"I also don't like the idea of a teacher imposing their personal opinions on the class. "

Except of course if that teacher whats to say that marriage is an institution between a man and a woman, that personal opinion is fine.

Actually, Putin disagrees with you because he likes to push his ideas and beliefs on his students. And anything that clamps the mouth on a teacher is negative in his view *except* when it comes to creationism.

Now, that said, this law is wrong because it is too all-encompassing. If it had been written to have the flexibility for open and frank discussion where appropriate (i.e. a variety of subjects from history where the Nazis killed homosexuals to health and psychology) and allowed for student-tracher counseling when a student felt comfortable talking to the teacher so that it's focus was on avoiding teacher abuses and student bullying (both sides of the LGBT aisle there) then it might be soemthing to consider. As is, it is a crap law.

Not really. That sort of discussion also shouldn't happen. Let's make sure these kids can read rather than having teenagers talk about marriage.

that was for SantaClausowitz.

That sounds like a fine idea for a law, Draugnar.

it's true, natural selection, it means on the strong gays survive to spread their message.

that's why so many people end up hearing the 'gay' message.

it's only a pity that same technique isn't applied to 'god lovers'. They could do with some natural selection pressure...

*only the strong gays...

I think that fag students should not be allowed into the normal students' change rooms for gym class.

They should also wear armbands to identify themselves. This will prevent the normal students from befriending them by accident.