#KrellinIsAnAlgorithm

#KrellinIsATuringBot

#KrellinIsFake

#ThereIsNoKrellin

How can you prove he exists. How do you know he is a real person. What if he is a computer... or worse... a dog

#KrellinIsNotReal
#KrellinIsScarlettJohansson
#fuckthucy
#seriouslyjustfuckthatguy

In answer to Gunfighter's question, I thought this paragraph from the Forbes article was quite helpful (this line is more about DHS purchasing armored vehichles, but the point is similar):

"The answer to “why would DHS need such a vehicle?” almost certainly is this: it’s a cool toy and these (reportedly) million dollar toys are being recycled, without much of a impact on the DHS budget. So… why not?"

A more conspiratorial explanation is that the government is trying to drive up the price of ammunition for the citizen ammo consumer. A good friend was complaining to me that the price of AR-15 rounds has gone from $.25 to $1.00 in the last year.

@Gunfighter, I apologize for my friend, I told him AR-15's suck and he should get an M-14, but he wouldn't listen. I did my best, honest.

you cant prove it

krellin is a secret government experiment

Just the most interesting lines in the forbes article:
"some of this purchase order is for hollow-point rounds, forbidden by international law for use in war, along with a frightening amount specialized for snipers."

"According to the AP story a DHS spokesperson justifies this acquisition to “help the government get a low price for a big purchase.” Peggy Dixon, spokeswoman for the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center: “The training center and others like it run by the Homeland Security Department use as many as 15 million rounds every year, mostly on shooting ranges and in training exercises.”

At 15 million rounds (which, in itself, is pretty extraordinary and sounds more like fun target-shooting-at-taxpayer-expense than a sensible training exercise) … that’s a stockpile that would last DHS over a century."

that "drive up the price" theory is stupid. that increase will just be temporary, and more sales will probably lower prices overall because it will put more money into the industry allowing them to make a higher profit. were they buying those assault weapons and armored tanks to drive up the price too? it is clear that they are setting up for a possible civil war. the federal government already stole trillions of dollars from the people to give to the elites through the bailouts and other such nonsense. there is only so much people will take. with 50 states, at least a few might decide they prefer a democracy (or a republic) to a plutocracy and issue their own money or support their citizens against the federal government's tax collectors. and the federal government now has the power to launch a civil war on them. there is a reason why the elite and the media love lincoln so much.

rereading some of the early comments I am appalled by this.

The thread user claimed that the government brought 1.6 billion hollow point bullet rounds, the response was, no its ok, they brought 1.6 billion round, but only 360,000 where hollow point.

My question is who gives a shit? They've purchased enough ammo to last a hundred years and of which 360,000 of those are illegal under the Geneva convention. Even if those 360,000 rounds are only going to be used in training, why are you training government employees to fire weapons they can't legally shoot?

I'm not big on conspiracy theories and generally find them to be retarded, but this one I do find a little concerning.

rereading my last comment I realized I made a lot of typos, sorry if that confuses anyone

"which, in itself, is pretty extraordinary and sounds more like fun target-shooting-at-taxpayer-expense than a sensible training exercise"

As I said in my first post, hollowpoint ammunition is designed to kill unarmored targets. It's actually outlawed for warfare because it causes "undue pain and suffering" You use full metal jacket rounds, or preferably wadcutters, for training exercises, because they're cheaper and they punch cleaner holes in the paper.

There's obviously an implication of something nefarious here, otherwise you wouldn't bother posting such news. Why is this dangerous, GF?

@blankflag - you wrote "that "drive up the price" theory is stupid" - yes, of course it's stupid. It's a conspiracy theory. Most conspiracy theories are stupid. Some of us could take a lesson from that.

@Gunfighter - please explain for the ignorant (me) what a "wadcutter" is. I know what full metal jacket and hollowpoint means, but I've never heard of a wadcutter.

Also, do hollowpoints have some advantage in hostage situations where you don't want your bullets punching through the criminal/terrorist and hitting hostages somewhere else in the room? Hostage situations are not war, so using hollow points in such a situation would not be a breach of the Geneva conventions.

hes not real

There was a thread about this a few weeks ago. If I have to read all of this stuff can you guys at least debate new topics?

jmo is in on it. Probably a shill for BIG AMMO and our socialist Zionist atheist Kenyan President.

@Fasces - You said that "Even if those 360,000 rounds are only going to be used in training, why are you training government employees to fire weapons they can't legally shoot? " While they are prohibited by the Geneva convention with regard to war. Whether we call it a war on terrorism or not, the department of homeland security does not conduct war and will not be held to any provision of the Geneva Convention. Therefore, it is not illegal for them to fire these. And with regard to the number of rounds, there are about 200,000 employees of that department. That works out to less than two rounds per employee.

@ 2WL

Why does the government need that much non-training, highly lethal ammunition is the question.

@ FlemGem

Wadcutters are flat-tipped bullets used to punch clean holes in paper (hollowpoint and some full metal jacket bullets have a tendency to punch jagged holes in paper targets, making it tough to distinguish exactly where the shot hit for training purposes) for target shooting. Wadcutters are normally used exclusively for training, particularly with law enforcement. Wadcutters work best in revolvers, as the feed ramp of a semi-automatic can prevent proper loading of wadcutters. My point is that hollowpoints are rarely if ever used for training due to their higher cost and the fact that they do not punch clean holes, which is problematic for most training exercises that are dependent on accuracy.

"Also, do hollowpoints have some advantage in hostage situations where you don't want your bullets punching through the criminal/terrorist and hitting hostages somewhere else in the room? Hostage situations are not war, so using hollow points in such a situation would not be a breach of the Geneva conventions."

Hollowpoints *do* have several advantages over full metal jacket for law enforcement applications, including increased stopping power against unarmored targets relative to an FMJ round of the same caliber, and less risk of overpenetration (which could result in collateral damage as you pointed out). Most law enforcement agencies use hollowpoint or soft-tip ammunition for non-training usage. My concern is the sheer quantity and the fact that hollowpoint is not used for training. I saw a statistic that they have enough ammunition for a 24-year war (using the Iraq War as a benchmark for ammunition consumption rates)

Personally, I use full metal jacket exclusively, because A) My M1911 in .45 ACP will take down anything on two legs and most things on four legs in one round with ordinary full metal jacket and B) Hollowpoint (and wadcutters) do not feed reliably into 1911-style handguns without modifications to the feed ramp.

@ jimgov

Hollowpoint is *not* illegal for civilian and law enforcement usage. It is simply illegal for use in warfare in the same way that it would be illegal to intentionally bomb a field hospital. In any case, hollowpoint is ineffective on the modern battlefield due to its vastly decreased effectiveness against even crude body armor.

My concern with the type of ammunition is that it A) is not intended for training use as claimed and B) they anticipate that their future targets will be unarmored i.e. civilians or poorly-equipped rebels.

@gunfighter - That was my point. Those rounds are meant for targeting civilians. And, by default, terrorists ARE civilians. They are not an army and this is not a conventional war. I'm not saying that shredding up someone is right, but...neither is terrorism.

Agreed

But, terrorists can also be non- civilian state- sponsored people

@djak - That is true. But, if it is state sponsored terrorism, are the terrorists protected under the Geneva Convention? I honestly don't know.

I wouldn't think so

I don't really care about the international legal implications of their usage. Those rounds are meant for AMERICAN civilians, since Homeland Security operates exclusively within America/American territorial waters.

That is an opinion, Gun. You are making an assumption that they are meant for American civilians. Terrorists operating on American soil are still terrorists.

.....even that's debatable...given the DHS' collaboration with the CIA, I'd beg to differ

"And with regard to the number of rounds, there are about 200,000 employees of that department. That works out to less than two rounds per employee."
I already discussed this. I'm not talking about just the hollow point bullets, I asked the question why do you need 1.6 billion rounds of which 360,000 are illegal. You covered the illegal part, but every point you make is only in defence of them purchasing the hollow points. I'm not gunfighter, I'm not talking about the hollow points I'm talking about the size of the purchase.

The DHS purchases an average of 15 million rounds a year. At the rate they use bullets, this purchase would last them 107 years. At the rate ammo was consumed for the Iraq war, this would last them for more then 30 years.

Why do they need that much ammo?

Who knows? Maybe they want to target terrorist candidates in more places than just Afghanistan

@Fasces - I have tried to look, but I cannot find any legitimate numbers that this 1.6 billion rounds is accurate or the number of rounds that were used in Iraq. The only one that I could verify is the 360,000 rounds of hollow points. Can anyone find a legitimate source for either of these? The only ones that I can find seem to be leaning WAY to one side or are from "truther" sources.

"Maybe they want to target terrorist candidates in more places than just Afghanistan"
Thats what drones are for, drone bombing has taken place in 17 different countries.

And also the DHS doesn't operate outside of american borders, so they could only be targeting terrorist candidates inside the US, of which only 1 attack has ever happened, I don't think the DHS having 1.6 billion rounds would have helped anyone on 9/11.