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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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GeneralLegion (102 D)
10 Aug 12 UTC
Fast-5-2 gameID=97090
Join gameID=97090 ! 5min rounds
14 replies
Open
kivan26 (100 D)
11 Aug 12 UTC
Someone ready for one quicki game?
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=97161
5 minutes turn, anon players
Please, welcome in.
1 reply
Open
Tolstoy (1962 D)
10 Aug 12 UTC
Gain the World, Lose Your Soul #3
A 36 hour 101 buy-in world map game.

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=97107
3 replies
Open
Favorite Authors?
I'm partial to P.G. Wodehouse, myself.
21 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
10 Aug 12 UTC
A word on String Seconds versus Draws... From the creator himself.
Objectives Other Than Winning
By Allan B. Calhamer

http://www.diplom.org/~diparch/resources/calhamer/objectives.htm
11 replies
Open
DragonTamerZ (100 D)
11 Aug 12 UTC
Online Game starting at 8:10
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=97145
0 replies
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NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
11 Aug 12 UTC
Film: Panic Button
This movie is a bit disturbing ......anybody seen it?
0 replies
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Thucydides (864 D(B))
06 Aug 12 UTC
Thucydides loves noobz EOG
As you all may know I promised to finish my games and other obligations, this EOG being one. (gameID=93465) More inside.
23 replies
Open
semck83 (229 D(B))
10 Aug 12 UTC
Awesome news story
(Watch the video, don't read the story).

http://www.kshb.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/target-of-alleged-murder-for-hire-plot-talks-about-ex-wife
3 replies
Open
Tolstoy (1962 D)
10 Aug 12 UTC
Did anyone *not* see this coming?
A high-ranking Mexican drug cartel operative: “Fast and Furious” wasn’t about tracking guns, it was about supplying them.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/high-ranking-mexican-drug-cartel-member-makes-explosive-allegation-fast-and-furious-is-not-what-you-think-it-is/
16 replies
Open
LegatusMentiri (100 D)
10 Aug 12 UTC
The conjoined twins reality tv show
http://tv.yahoo.com/news/conjoined-twins--abby---brittany--get-their-own-reality-show--video-.html
13 replies
Open
F4shark (490 D)
10 Aug 12 UTC
Taking over and loosing points instantly
I think it is unfair when someone takes over in a game and has to lay in a bet in an unfair situation. For example: it is Autumn diplomacy and you take over a country with 6 SC's, while 2 out of 6 are already occupied and there is not a chance in regaining them. So when the move ends you lose 2 SC's instantly and valuable points. Meaning that the system should consider this possible loss of points. Before you even start you are punished.
12 replies
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Yonni (136 D(S))
06 Aug 12 UTC
Curiosity
Massively awesome achievement. Unfortunately, it hasn't received the same popular news coverage as the LHC experiments but certainly worth celebrating.
17 replies
Open
Tolstoy (1962 D)
09 Aug 12 UTC
Texas Executes Mentally Retarded Man
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/08/steinbeck-family-outraged-texas-judge-cited-of-mice-and-men-in-execution-ruling/
Is this a great country or what? [/sarcasm]
66 replies
Open
ava2790 (232 D(S))
10 Aug 12 UTC
Partying with edi birsan
At the world diplomacy championship 22

What did you do tonight?
8 replies
Open
GeneralLegion (102 D)
10 Aug 12 UTC
gameID=97090
5 min fast rounds
3 replies
Open
Yonni (136 D(S))
10 Aug 12 UTC
SC in Tuscany
The SC in Rome is fairly poor for building fleets compared to the one in Naples. However, of the SC was in Tuscany, Italy's ability to attack France would increase considerable. Conversely, it would also make it easier for France to attack Italy. All in all, do you think SC Tuscany would make Italy stronger or weaker?
8 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
08 Aug 12 UTC
Site won't let me logout.
I'm trying to logout so I can log in as hellalt as I am sitting for him and the site keeps logging me back in as soon as I click the logoff button on the logoff page. Anyone else have this happen?
17 replies
Open
podium (498 D)
06 Aug 12 UTC
Wanted
See inside for details
17 replies
Open
ScottS (100 D)
10 Aug 12 UTC
How does one remove an account from this site?
See title.
8 replies
Open
yebellz (729 D(G))
06 Aug 12 UTC
One liners
Whoever put the "B" in "subtle" is a clever bastard.
20 replies
Open
NKcell (0 DX)
10 Aug 12 UTC
Draw
Please guys. I have to run, please draw this game:
gameID=97055

i didn't think it would take this long. Thanks.
40 replies
Open
MichiganMan (5121 D)
09 Aug 12 UTC
Thursday Troubles-5 EoG
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=97039&msgCountryID=0

Two CD's, and France refuses to draw. Will this insanity NEVER end?!?
24 replies
Open
viejo (100 D)
09 Aug 12 UTC
Para jugadores hispanoparlantes
Por si interesa: http://www.labsk.net/index.php?topic=91179
5 replies
Open
BosephJennett (866 D)
09 Aug 12 UTC
Drawing is the last refuge of the desperate
I've seen a lot of people, when their end is getting near, suddenly throw out a vote for a draw. I'm curious how people read this: a last-ditch attempt to escape defeat or simply using one more tool in the arsenal?
19 replies
Open
Mujus (1495 D(B))
27 Jul 12 UTC
Favorite Bible Quotes and Discussion
While it's not everybody's cup of tea, this thread is a place where we can have an occasional discussion about specific Bible quotes. If you don't want to see it, just mute the thread, and no harm done.
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Draugnar (0 DX)
28 Jul 12 UTC
Ah but Obi, God gave us Jesus Christ and Andrew Lloyd Weber & Time Rice made him a Superstar. I don't think I want to hear or see a rock opera based on Conan and Thulsa Doom.
Draugnar (0 DX)
28 Jul 12 UTC
Tim Rice...
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
28 Jul 12 UTC
I'd take a rock opera on Conan (or just about anything) over Jesus Christ Superstar...gah!

(Not even a theological qualm there, just a grating musical/opera, in my opinion...for a good musical with some actually decent Judeo-Cristian overtones...

Well, there's "Les Miserables," of course, one of if not the greatest opera-style musical of all-time, and with probably the most awesome Priest ever, Valjean as a Christ-like figure, and Javert, because Javert is just fucking amazing, and hopefully Russell Crowe will be a credit to the role and not crap when the movie/musical adaptation hits the big-screen in December.)

;)
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
28 Jul 12 UTC
@dubdell:

Nothing wrong with a little talk on the side...

Besides, my topic doesn't cover the logic of Christianity, so I'm not retreading ground here...and even if I were, I still contend this thread is a retread, so I guess I'm just in the spirit of it all, lol.
I saw Jesus Christ Superstar with the original Judas around 1992. What an amazing voice. I prefer "Godspell" though.
"Love the Lord thy God wilth all thy heart, and all thy mind, and all thy soul."
"Love thy neighbor as thyself"

I take them to be the core of the Christian faith. Christ said "Upon these two commandment hang all the law and the prophets." Paul says it is impossible to truly love someone and sin against them.
Draugnar (0 DX)
28 Jul 12 UTC
Les Miserables? Really? That piece of crap? Oh fuck no! Give me JC:S any day! It must be a generational thing. I mean, I finally finished the book and it was good, but that musical just sucks!
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
28 Jul 12 UTC
"The Bible can be totally true, parts literally so, and parts in ways that teach via allegories and parables that may just be educational stories that make a point rather than literal truth."

I'll stop you right there, Mujus, for the reason I gave above--

For you to make any claims about the truth of the Bible theologically, you need to be able to say it is, to one extent or another, the Word of God.

And to do THAT, you would have to explain the Nature of God...
Which you cannot...
And thus your point becomes circular, because your method of illuminating the Nature of God, at least the root of it, is the Bible itself.

It's a vicious circle.

Frankly, it's a logical argument that can't be won, Descartes already tried, his attempt to prove the Existence and Nature of God via the Cartesian Circle is, well, Circular, and notoriously so, and frankly no one has even come close to making as good a logical argument for the existence and nature of God since.

Which was fine for Descartes, as circular though it was, be being a Christian, he figured that faith was enough here.

And that's the only way to have God exist for you--via pre-existing faith.

There is no proof or logical argument for God, because the belief in God for those who do believe generally precedes the logical process, and so whatever the result of logical inquiry, if they wish to long and hard enough, they can find a way back to believing in God, because for them, God comes before any and all logic.

But in a rational argument, those precursory precepts don't fly, hence the failure--

For the believer, God already exists, now it's a matter of rationalizing it...
For the non-believer, God requires proof, and none can be given BEYOND the rationalizations made by those who already believe...

And while those reasons may sound good to those who already believe...it's because they already believe--they've already bought the product, as it were, so it doesn't matter how illogical or faulty the sales pitch is.

And it IS.
My Dad hated "I Don't Know How to Love Him" from JC:S, I always liked the song.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
28 Jul 12 UTC
Huh, I think that may be the first time I've heard someone say they think Les Mis outright sucks.

Can you elaborate as to why you think that, Draug?
Draugnar (0 DX)
28 Jul 12 UTC
@CA - Godspell is good to, but who do you mean when you say the original Judas? Ben Vereen played Judas in the stage production before the movie. If you mean the actor who played Judas in the movie (hardly the original actor to play it, but OK) then yeah, Carl Anderson played Judas in a revival of it.
Draugnar (0 DX)
28 Jul 12 UTC
Obi - What's to elaborate? I personally don't like the music. It's a matter of preference and taste. I find the music to be simplistic and pedestrian.
Draugnar (0 DX)
28 Jul 12 UTC
And Obi - If you were to study theology (not just philosophy) you would understand the structure of the writings in the OT. The way it is composed make parts clearly historic in nature and other parts allegory. This doesn't make the Bible any less the Word of God just as the fact that Jesus taught with parables doesn't make them any less "the truth" just because the parables aren't factual occurences.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
28 Jul 12 UTC
@Draug:

Hm. Well, I'm not a musicologist, so I couldn't speak to it's technical composition...I felt it struck a right balance between being memorable enough (lots of memorable tunes and lyrics I feel in this musical) and also knowing when it needed to be minimalist or quiet enough to give the characters their moment on stage as well, as this obviously features one of the best and most vaunted stories in the West, arguably France's great national epic/ The Great French Novel...

There's still the likes of Camus, Dumas, and then Proust's monstrous seven-volume epic I hope to read sometime to contend with there, but I digress.

On the other points:

1. To be clear, I don't study philosophy, I'm not a philosophy major, nor will I ever be...I need to get a job and afford drinks and tons and tons more books, after all. ;) So just to be clear, so I'm not deceiving anyone, I'm not studying philosophy...I read it, quite a bit, and I have quite a few of the major figures between Plato and Sartre sitting on my bookshelf, but, to be sure no one ascribes me any undue authority, I'm not a Philosophy major--I'm an English major. Totally different. Instead of being a snob when someone can't follow Wittgenstein, I instead can be a snob when someone doesn't understand Chaucer's English. ;)

2. Well, Draug, there are some who say every last word is completely and utterly the literal word of God--what do you say (and on what authority?) to those who hold such a view?

3. I'm not taking the parables as literal occurrences, but I WILL say that I don't have to take Jesus' message as "the truth," ie, a valid viewpoint or ideal, any more than I would take Plato's idea of Forms as factual even as he gives a parabolic Analogy of the Cave to convey the idea. (I'd mention the fact that Plato gives this idea while neither he nor his followers ever once said that you would go to a torture chamber for all eternity if you didn't believe his theory of Forms, after all, his best student, Aristotle, didn't, and Christianity has a long, long, LONG history of doing just that, but now I AM trespassing on my "Great Debate" material, so I'll leave it there.)

4. What's more, there's still no actual "proof" these were Jesus' words...Plato wrote down his works, and obviously Jesus didn't, he's actually quite the same position as Socrates, ie, being attributed many ideas and sayings but not having something of his own writing or record be passed down...actually, if anything, Socrates has a better case for his views being his than Jesus, as his trial records' report and ideals via Plato and others were written down in what would have been just a few years after his death, whereas with Jesus, the Gospels don't come in and give an account until many decades after the fact, so there's actually more evidence and proof for Socrates having existed and said what he said than Jesus.

5. Finally, even if Jesus did exist and did give his great Sermon on the Mount, that would still not prove the existence of the God or Kingdom of Heaven he was speaking of...we could not logically infer from his existing that he actually was the Son of God, for all we know--and for what it's worth, it's my own personal belief, and probably the belief that's gathering the most steam and has the closest root in truth to it presently--he could have just been a very, very spirited rabbi, a great Jewish public speaker with some ideas that appealed to his audience and a way of conveying it (ie, choosing the right metaphors and analogies) that made him very, very believable to those in 1st Century AD Judea and, as a result, this highly-charismatic Jews caught the eye of the Romans for saying something deemed dangerous, and was killed...and thus began a personality cult (plenty of those before and after this time period) and that eventually became a new religion with decades turning his life into a legend (we see that happen with leaders today, acquiring a near-legendary status, Washington and Churchill two good examples) and with the Gospels, this religion caught on...and you know the rest. We have ABSOLUTELY NO OBJECTIVELY LOGICAL PROOF to assume that, even if he existed, Jesus' message was true, or that the things he spoke of were true. Again, you must first presume them to BE true before reading for them to come off as such; if you go in, like me, first a loosely-religious Reformed Jew (and thus not believing he was the Messiah) and then as an agnostic/atheist (and thus not believing in a supernatural force at all) you have no prior reason to accept these claims. The Bible assumes its audience to already believe in God, the first line being "In the Beginning, God created the Heaven and the Earth." There isn't a second to stop and establish the logical existence of god first and THEN say he created the Earth; the writers of the Bible take God as a given, and if you do not already think a God exists, the Bible does nothing to persuade you one does...you must first find a reason to believe for a reason OUTSIDE THE TEXT, be it for personal reasons or for wanting it to be true or for hearing it for the first time as a child, having adults tell you it's true and, as we seem to have a genetic disposition as a species to defer to our elder's ideals at a very young age as children and take them as fact (before, you know, we grow facial hair and listen to rock music and ride Harleys and go Dean Martin or Marlon Brando) taking what our parents say is true as truth, and so on. At any rate, there is NO argument given for God in the Bible, so ...all the things I just said, I'm repeating myself now. :)
Draugnar (0 DX)
28 Jul 12 UTC
@Obi - "2. Well, Draug, there are some who say every last word is completely and utterly the literal word of God--what do you say (and on what authority?) to those who hold such a view? "

The authority is the actual original Hebrew and the scholars who have studied it. Typical modern literalists are sheep with a hive mind mentality who can't think on their own and believe every word is literal and that the animals came to North America on reed rafts and dinosaurs co-existed with man and other such bullshit.

Hebrew scholars (not Jewish by heritage athiests such as yourself) have done a significant amount of research into this area and the literalists refuse to accept that our knowledge of the subject can and has grown. They think "inerrant Word of God" means their interpretatrion is without error and their logic fails at an epic fucking level.
Yes, Carl Anderson. I should have been more clear.

Loved the line

"Always thought that I'd be an apostle/
Knew that I could make it if I tried/
Then when we retired we could wirte the gospels/
So they'll all talk about us when we've died"
Draugnar (0 DX)
28 Jul 12 UTC
@Obi - "neither he nor his followers ever once said that you would go to a torture chamber for all eternity if you didn't believe his theory of Forms"

Please show me in the new testament where hell is the result of not following every commandment to the letter. Jesus tore open the gates of hell and freed all souls who were imprisoned there. Hell is no more. And nothing in Christianity (when interpretted from the Greek correctly) says you go to hell for not following every single thing literally. He is not willing that any should perish but that all should have everlasting life. What part of having your soul perish is torture. You either have everlasting live or you cease to exist. As an athiest, this shouldn't bother you because you already believe when your body dies you will cease to exist. So what's the difference?
Draugnar (0 DX)
28 Jul 12 UTC
@CA - My favorite song is Pilate's Dream. While scripturally it is Pilate's wife who has the dream, it doesn't matter. The song is just so haunting and powerful. And then when juxtaposed with The Garden of Gethsemane... Brings chills to my spine!
Draugnar (0 DX)
28 Jul 12 UTC
I dreamed I met a Gallilean,
A most amazing man.
He had that look you very rarely find
The haunting, hunted kind.

I asked him to say what had happened,
How it all began.
I asked again.
He never said a word,
As if he hadn't heard.
I just listened to "I Don't Know How to Love Him" again this evening. About half the time I cry when listening now since it's so wrapped up in the memory of Dad. It got me tonight, right out of the blue. My daughter came in and wrapped her arm around me, she's a good kid.
I checked that one out again as well. Chills down our spine is right.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
28 Jul 12 UTC
Well, I'm sure your father would've been happy to know you've raised such a compassionate daughter, and have been proud of that, and you...

Best way to honor a memory is to commemorate it like that.
Draugnar (0 DX)
28 Jul 12 UTC
@CA - Which version? The Mary Magdelene one or Judas' which is so *very* powerful. Carl Anderson was simply the best Judas *ever* and Ted Neeley was no slouch as Jesus. The movie's cast was honestly as perfect as that show ever saw.
I have to say I've been watching Fred Johanson's Pilate and really like him.

It was Pilate's dream that I referred to but that was from the movie.
Mujus (1495 D(B))
28 Jul 12 UTC
Dubmdell, thanks for that referral to the Holman--I had never heard of it before but will check it out. Very interesting! And Obi, did I answer your question?
Draugnar (0 DX)
28 Jul 12 UTC
No, I meant earlier when you said you were listening to "I Don't Know How To Love Him". Judas does a version just before he commits suicide.
Mujus (1495 D(B))
28 Jul 12 UTC
Obi, your points support and are supported by the original quote in the first post of this thread. I think there's a lot of truth in that we can't come to trust in God via logic only. It is sufficient for Christians that faith/trust/hope in God can be completely rational, even if human logic cannot prove the existence of God to the satisfaction of everyone. The quote again:
Mujus (1495 D(B))
28 Jul 12 UTC
"18 The message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God. 19 As the Scriptures say, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and discard the intelligence of the intelligent.” 20 So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world’s brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish. 21 Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe. 22 It is foolish to the Jews, who ask for signs from heaven. And it is foolish to the Greeks, who seek human wisdom. 23 So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it’s all nonsense."
(New Living Translation, from blueletterbible.org)
Mujus (1495 D(B))
28 Jul 12 UTC
Your answer shows a deep insight into the nature of faith, btw. And while we're on the topic of faith, I'd like to share a video I watched today that touched my heart, a story told by Jason Castro, because may times music can touch us in places that logic cannot, and the kind of faith we have in God is not only logical but also deeply emotional and relational. Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaKoE2lm7XY&feature=related
Mujus (1495 D(B))
28 Jul 12 UTC
"many times" I meant.

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124 replies
zultar (4180 DMod(P))
08 Aug 12 UTC
Cancelling, pausing/unpausing, and cheat accusation policies
Details below.
24 replies
Open
vexlord (231 D)
09 Aug 12 UTC
Last spot!
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=96597
Anon Winner take all
0 replies
Open
Fortress Door (1837 D)
04 Aug 12 UTC
The Ultamite Showdown
the old thread was locked, so here is the new one.
28 replies
Open
WDEnder (232 D)
09 Aug 12 UTC
How to connect a moderator?
Just want to ask question.. In a game with no chat whatsover but seeing two countries next to each other are much deeper ally then i've ever seen in game where negoation is possible... is there way to have a check on those type of players?
3 replies
Open
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