BSG Season 4 definitely saw a decline in quality, and I'm pleased the show ended before it had a chance to get worse. But it was still much better than nearly all of the dreck in the rest of TV-land. I would also say that for all the fourth season's many flaws, I think the attempted coup story arc one of the highlights of the show.

I don't know how anyone could say seasons 1-3 of BSG were inferior to Firefly, however. I think Firefly was a novel concept that had a lot of potential, but most of the episodes during its all-too-brief run just weren't all that good IMHO. It probably would've hit its stride sometime in the third season had it not run afoul of network politics.

Bad politics, but Starship Troopers has to be on here. It spawned an entire subgenre of science fiction and was a source of heated debate since it was written at the height of the Cold War as an apology for nuclear weapons testing.

I wasn't sure if anyone would name that one because of the heated debate.

But undeniably important, since it's still on the US military reading lists, 50 years later.

"I think the attempted coup story arc one of the highlights of the show."

Agreed. That episode or two was pretty fantastic.

It's hard to compare BSG and Firefly. BSG was so serious, ALL THE TIME. Firefly had some light humor, and the actors had tremendous chemistry. In my mind, that makes it better. In terms of overall plot arcs? Perhaps BSG has the advantage, but only because Firefly was so short. They were clearly going places with that.

But I don't think anything beats Star Trek: Deep Space Nine for plot arcs.

So I've heard, and agree. It is so often missunderstood I often wonder if some critics have read it.

Starship Troopers have Spacesuit Will Travel were both excellent Heinlein novels.

Had to think about Have Space Suit for awhile. I think I read that when I was in Jr High. Not my favorite Heinlein but a fun story, aimed I think more at teens. I liked his ideal of synthesists, we could use them today.

Anything on TV or in the cinema is going to lightly influence more people than anything you have to read because watching a story is easier on the brain than reading a story. Reading the story requires you to imagine the scenes for yourself.

The writers of a TV series have the advantage of seeing the sets that will be used for most of the scenes (The Bridge, Engineering, Medical, Transporter Room, Shuttle Bay, 10-Forward, Captains Cabin, random corridors, external models/CGI) whereas an author has to imagine the scenes himself *and* then convey them well enough that the reader can imagine them too. That's a lot more work.

A TV series is (usually) 24 episodes; how many books would you have to read in order to absorb that quantity, if not quality, of storyline. If Dr Who/Thunderbirds/Star Trek/Star Wars/BSG/Babylon 5/Firefly had only appeared in book form, how popular or influential would they have been?

"...advantage that we will be seeing the sets..."

Has anyone read the alternative history stuff by SM Stirling? I've been meaning to read the Domination series and the General series.

I don't recall doing so. I've read several of Turtledove's alternate history stories. I like his short stories better. His novels are interesting but, with some keeping track of all of caricatures can be a task at times. This is true "In the Balance" series more so than others. Fortunitly he has list of who's who in the books.

Same with Turtledove's "Darkness" series: a world war in a world where magic works as if it were science.

I've been meaning to read that series just never got around to it.

Oh, and I agree completely with Speaker. Writing for a series requires far less imagination. And I have to see that "reach" doesn't mean squat. Star Wars has reached an entire world and, yes, it has even inspired some kids to become scientists. But it is hardly "important" scifi. We already know my argument on scifi versus science fantasy (SW is the later), but important should be about groundbreaking concepts. Star Wars ripped off Star Trek with warp drive becoming hyperspace jumps and phasers becoming blasters. The only truly original concepts were lightsabers, "the force", and droids and even the droids were stolen from I, Robot.

So to judge important SciFi, I say we look at the groundbreaking concepts.

Dickson's Dorsai! and Necromancer (and the rest of the Childe Cycle) - ground breaking original work in the concepts of "courage, faith, and humanity" or conviction, religion, and living.

In the scifi world and associated writings I agree. What I was trying get at is the impact on the general society. As good as those books and many others are, most people who read them are allready interested in science, scifi, and etc. Star Trek created interest in scifi, scifantasy, science, and technology in people who might never have been so. This in return impacted society in many ways.

Then Star Wars must also be included in the list if just for the scientists determined to create a working light saber <grin>. And how many stargazers did ET or Close Encounters create looking for life "out there"?

ET and CE just didn't have same degree of impact. As you use your cell phone think communicator. Some of the developers are Trekkies and were inspired by Star Trek.

Can we count 007 films? How many inventors have been inspired by Q's gadgets?

@Draugnar Q never compared to this, these is only a small sampling. You are not only disagreeing with me but with alot people who have studied this phenomenon, and your just being argumentative. http://wikieducator.org/DeAnza_College/CIS2/Star_Trek_technologies/ http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Social/star_trek/SH7.htm

Many scifi stories have entered the public consciousness in subtle ways. How many times have you heard somebody use these phrases in real life and known exactly what was meant?
"Beam me up Scotty!",
"I canna break the laws of physics!",
"Prepare to be assimilated.",
"Open the Pod Bay doors please Hal.",
"I don't think they're gonna to make it.",
"In space, nobody can hear you scream."
"Long long ago in a galaxy far far away.",
"May the Force be with you."
"I am your Father, Luke.",
"Exterminate!",
"I don't think we're in Kansas any more."
"Thunderbirds are Go!",
"F.A.B.",
"Danger, Will Robinson!",
"Anything could happen in the next half hour."

(Ok, the last 4 not so much these days.)

@warsprite - No, not arguing for argument sake. Just proposing others I think have had an influence. Trek isn't the only one and I've expanded your original post to include sci fantasy so Trek and Star Wars are there as well. And I was serious about the 007 films. Some high ranking officers from the US Navy approached Cubby Broccoli after seeing the rebreather in Thunderball because they thought it was real and wanted to buy it for the SEALS to be able to dump their scuba equipment farther off shore and come in on rebreathers. And Moonraker (horrid movie that it is) really did present a quasi-realistic launch and flight of the space shuttle in 1979 two full years before STS-1 launched in 1981.

@Speaker - Us older developers live by "Danger, Will Robinson!" whenever a young gun decides he doesn't need to test his code on the Dev servers. <grin>

@Warsprite: It seems to me that you've asked a question and then you're arguing against people who don't support your own pre-conceived ideas. "As you use your cell phone think (star trek) communicator." No! Wrong! Instead think "Dick Barton Special Agent", who had a wrist phone in the BBC radio series in 1946. Think Thunderbirds, where International Rescue had video wrist phones and Lady Penelope had a video phone built into her compact.

I'll give you the clam-shell design used for some mobile phones, but that's the only part of a Star Trek communicator that I'll allow you to claim has inspired the design of one type of mobile phone.

StarCraft

Don't forget Dick Tracy with his communicator watch (1931).

@chamois - You picked up StarCraft II yet?

@Draugnar - Unfortunately, this older developer has to work with young gun managers too. They take a *lot* of breaking in.

@Draugnar : I won't until Blizzard make a LAN mode.
But I played the campaign and it was very fun.