@ fig
I mean like all those friends of his in their previous games, surely they could have just been warned also, i'm talking about Dillinger, Derek22, etc.

@ squiglefidge: "I would love to remove the dodgy games but for now I can't."

Why not?

Because the code isn't there, Jamiet

In that case why can't you remove his points and GR gained from the dodgy games? Reset his points to 100, effective from the date he was "warned".

I have to defend Ghost on that. Trying to compute the points just from his gains since the warning and especially trying to reset and compute GR would be an extensive task.

And this is an apology to the mods. I had a bad day and took out my frustration on you guys. I still think it unfair and unjust that he profited and no one reset his points and stuff when he was given a warning off a second chance (let's be real, banned once and then he cheats *again* and all that was done was a warning?!), but banning him now would probably be unfair. although it might not be out of order to do something to offest the injustice of his ill-gotten high GR and points.

I think much of the issue was trying to determine whether he himself actively cheated or merely prospered from friends who were naive and easy to manipulate.

@Maniac - you can yes, but it still seems completely unfair to me.
Someone who's cheated recently? Maybe. But as I've said above, he hasn't done anything wrong since Ghost pointed this out to him.
Whilst in this case whilst I clearly disagree with you I can see your logic, I am against blacklists since often they ensnare people who have been unequivocally cleared of cheating.

Certainly public black lists seem a bit mean. I have one of my own, but I don't intend on sharing it. (I also lose it a lot, so it isn't comprehensive). I'm not sure there's any benefit to actively telling people everyone you wont' play with.

"I just think that if people state why they don't want to play with others, then perhaps those others will stop engaging in questionable antics and the mods would have less work to do."

- Fair enough, that's a move to benifit the community here, however i do believe in everyone having a fair trial. If the mods fail to find sufficient evidence to ban someone then i can assume innocence.

"Obiwanobiwan – his interpretation of metagaming differs markedly from my own" if this is about his interpretation of the league rules (from the league which we just finished) then i can assure you i agree with him. If it is about something you have failed to give enough information to convince me of anything.

further you're just encouraging people to call you a lier in responce.

@Orathaic - anyone who has ever served jury duty will tell you very clearly that a not-guilty verdict doesn't mean the person didn't do it, just that there wasn't enough evidence to convict beyond a reasonable doubt.

so are you advocating an alternate mob-based justice system, where the player declare who is non-persona?

I hate that my first post on the forums has to be in this topic, but is cheating this rampant? I'm in a game right now with Mr.Luka & JAK198 and some rather... shifty actions have happened all game. This being one of the first games I have played that is not completely with friends I have had join the site to play, it leaves a bit of a bitter taste.

What I am trying to get at is a list like this would of helped me in deciding what random games to join. I would prefer what few points I have chiseled out to go towards playing fair games that help me grow as a player. Not rigged games that, honestly, make me not want to branch out and join this community.

Well the point is that if one finds people they think are cheating they should let the mods know who can then deal with it.
Someone recently said that those two were being looked into

@Chest

Cheating is really not that common. It just sucks a lot so it's very noticeable when it happens.

For instance, in the approx. 70 games I've played. I've only been a victim of cheating once or twice. Not bad at all, imho.

The best way to get into good games is to join ones that are advertised on the Forum. I never blindly join games in the "Open Games" section anymore. Games that are advertised tend to be of noticeably higher quality.

Also, 24hour+ phases tend to have less problems than live games. There are still some great live games on this site, but they're more prone to have issues.

Also, welcome to the site!

@orathaic - blackballing/blacklisting happens in the real world all the time. Pete Rose is persona non-grata at anything even remotely connected to baseball despite the fact that MLB has nothing to do with the old timers games or little league. In the business world, word gets round if you cheat a client and you'll find yourself unable to get an consulting gig as a result. It's partof life, so yes, I do advocate blackballing players with decidely irreputable pasts.

"I believe the punishment should be much worse than the crime, because if the punishment fits the crime and people aren't always caught, then in the long run your expected outcome is better if you cheat, thus cheating is encouraged. "

Wow :-)

I still think the problem could be solved easily just by tagging AgentK with an icon which says "this person has been banned/cheated recently", so the other players know who they're dealing with. I mean, they notify you if a paedophile moves into your neighborhood and this is the same. The tag could be cleared after 5 years of non-cheating

Hey Chest, welcome! To add to abgemachts observations, getting into passworded games by hanging out here on the forum also greatly reduces the odds of cheating.

@fig How does one inform the mods?

@abge Thank you!

I assume this doesn't happen that often. I have to admit, it's mainly just really frustrating.

@alamothe +1 (make that +5 for the 5 years before clearing). I like. A scarlet letter M (for meta or multi) as it were.

[email protected]

What you're not taking into account is the age element.
Lots of people make mistakes when they're young, and stop when they grow up.

Whilst you may have a point about people at the top of their employment, you wouldn't expect their old school report to be dragged out saying they weren't good enough.

alamothe +1

@Chest - as Draug says, email [email protected]
Also, your issue has been 'dealt with'.

Um, you clearly don't keep up with the mudslinging in American Politics. Smoke pot in college? Better hope it becomes acceptable when you run for office. And six months is not any time in the maturity process for one presumably at least in high school if not college. Unless you tell me beyond a doubt that Agent K is under 16, I have to presume he is a young adult at a minimum and must face the consequences like an adult.

@Draug

That's all very well and good, but this is a game. It should be fun. He isn't scamming anyone out of money, he isn't lying on his resume, he isn't falsely claiming to be a war vet. He cheat at a game. Honestly, you shouldn't let things like that bother you that much.

What has he gained? A few extra points (big fucking deal) and an inflated GR (which will sort itself out soon enough). Would you rather turn away a decent player that enjoys the game to a different site (dare I say, playdip) or from the hobby all together?

Should he have lost some Points? Yes, but again, who the fuck cares. Should he have lost GR? Yes, but that is simply too much work for Ghost to be responsible for.

So, really, we all agree that you have a point, but please just let it go. If he cheats again, we'll all help knock down his sand caste, but until then, why not just forget about it?

See we do have laws to protect our names, defamation being where you lie or ruin someone's reputation without just cause.

My point about justice being that you can't go around saying people did a bad thing unless you can prove it.

However i'm glad you feel 'blackballing' players will reduce the number of cheaters, as if you are successful in your campaign you will force some of these (possibly innocent) players to create new accounts, which, while not being multis, will give them the opportunity to avoid your judgement.

Good luck in your crusade.

also in all my time here i havne't come across a single case of provable cheating. Not to mention the number of times i've come across provable stupidity.

i only remember one person ever telling me they would not play with me again. Dingleberry Jones. and i doubt he remembers me

Well said Abge.