@Goldfinger: Last game the mafia received criticism for being too strong. Now you complain the Mafia is too weak.

I don't actually agree with either counts. But I'm curious, do you think there should only be one optimal Mafia team setup used every time? Do you think Mafia or town teams should never be challenged?

@WJ - not to be a nudge, but strongman ability? Preserved if kill is vs commuting bird? Yea or Nay?

We heard concerns earlier that 6 mafia is too many and makes the mafia too strong. Now the mafia is too weak. The mafia still has 6 facing 16. Don't forget that.

Just rig the maf teams to have OP good players and make all the PR's a bunch of hopeless newbs ;) by newbs I mean me. I am new here

##CALL GM's are we allowed to ask the methodology which was used to determine the teams and how the roles were distributed? And why the signup lists were fixed a certain way so that the order in which people signed up was irrelevant?

Also does random.org factor into this or were the teams adjusted to produce an optimal product?

I can't wait to repeat my position on lynching lurkers again.

@bo and wjessop. This is balanced for the number of mafia members there are. The roles aren't strong, but their sheer number gives then a huge advantage to balance out the weaker roles

But I think the games would be more interesting with fewer maf and more powerful roles

Goldy you ready to be a town PR?

Nope. I would be absolutely awful as inventor. Single most powerful role. easiest to fuck up. If I'm a PR, plz make me Birdo

Or Yoshi

@goldie ... maybe, but wj and I agreed to keep things a bit simpler. That's my personal preference at least. If wj disagrees, he went along with it without complaining much. For what it's worth, we are inserting three new roles into webDip mafia, right? Inventor, ringleader, and commuter have never been used before on here (I mean I just made up the ringleader role so I know it hasn't). I don't know that anything like a junior ghost role has either. It's going to be interesting to see how these roles turn out. The ringleader role in particular could be extremely important.

The strongman role could and should have an impact beyond getting rid of the first PR. Using it to obliterate the first PR claim may not be the wisest thing to do with it. That's something for the players to decide, though.

@bb ... the role selections were random. I don't know why wj alphabetized the list. Maybe he just hates Chaqa that much.

##GM Note

@OB: Good question; the simple answer is that the Strongman's strength is only exerted/used when someone is killed. So, in your example, if the Mafia in the night go to kill the Commuter, and the Commuter is out of town, then no kill will take place, and therefore the Strongman will not have exerted themselves; in the case where the Mafia's selection is not available in town to be nightkilled, then the Strongman retains his strength.

@Vash: Yes, when the hammer mechanic is activated, the day will end as soon as there is a plurality of votes on someone. (Note: It is unprecedented that a hammer mechanic would be activated by a majority without a vote consensus also in place).

@brainbomb: The roles are assigned randomly. I'll refer you to Rule 4: "the fun of this game is reading people, not outguessing the GM".

As for why the Player List was put into alphabetical order, I don't feel the need to justify this beyond saying that it is extremely common for GMs to order the list alphabetically when sign up is complete.

@Goldfinger: To enter briefly in to the discussion between you and bo on the game setup; thanks for confirming you think it's balanced -- I was pleased that everyone seems to agree on that. Creating balance is always going to be a fine line -- but I put in the Ghost/Junior Ghost role to offset the Cop in a stronger PR-led town than previous towns have seen: also, you're right that the Inventor can swing both ways, but that comes as well as the Vigilante and the Friendly Neighbour, so it always comes back to the players themselves. The mafia may not have a roleblock but that's not necessarily a bad thing for the mafia in a game where the town's power roles need to be wise rather than frivolous. If this setup had been 16 vanilla town and 6 vanilla mafia, more than likely people would have felt the mafia were in the dominant position. I'm hoping this setup works well.

Also, already processed the role assignments, so no, you can't pick to be Birdo unfortunately ...whether you are or aren't ;)

Also, for the record. To put my earnest hat on for a second, I don't hate Chaqa. Like my friend krellin, I'm all about the love.

##CALL GM
VOTING:
"Mafia NK will be decided by majority vote. In the event of a tie, the most recent vote will decide."
Ringleader:
"If you are killed, ties will be broken by the earliest vote."

So, is it earliest or most recent? I believe this was an issue in some recent game.

The ringleader's vote breaks a tie so long as the ringleader is alive. If the ringleader dies, then that rule comes into effect.

Yes, but which rule? There are two, contradictory ones.

##GM Note

@Xorses: Good spot. It's the earliest/oldest vote that will count.

In all honesty, that discrepancy has occurred because I used my master copy document from Mafia 12, my previous turn as GM; while also updating against Mafia 17's rule set, and then updating as we saw fit between me and bo. Human error, this one slipped our net.

^

This gun be gud.

I can't wait to be VT this time. Someone can save me from my stupidity ^_^

If the Sniper is the last Mafia standing, and the Vig is still alive, does Mafia get to kill at night?

Not if the sniper hasn't joined the QT yet.

please ignore the above.

##GM Note.

Regarding if the Sniper is the last Mafia standing:

1. The sniper knows who his teammates are.
2. The sniper is away on a mission regarding Luigi's death, so the Sniper does not participate in Mafia chat.
3. However, if all the Mafia members die before the sniper does, the Sniper will be forced to return from his mission to Mafia base, to Mafia chat, and lose his sniper gunshot opportunity if it is still remaining.

Sorry for that confusion, that's my fault. We had discussed the options but presumed it would never happen as an eventuality.

Please don't ignore Bo generally -- ignore me when it's past my bed time :)

Nah, ignore Bo generally, it's just a good way to live life.

##GM Note

We'll post all of the important clarifications in the game thread tomorrow before the game starts, to keep the elaborations to various questions on page 1 of the game thread.

Good night and see you all tomorrow!

hopeless newbies in the game: CONFIRMED. This should be fun though. Thanks to wessopj and bo for all the work they've put into creating this.

Quick question: If I understand correctly, the Inventor gives out powerups, and these must be used the following day-and-night, lest they disappear. (Reminds me of Peach in Smash Brothers!)

Does using flower power have to be declared in the same post as the vote, or can it be declared earlier? What about unvotes/switches to a vote, does the flowerpower follow the vote, or get lost when the vote is changed?

How public is the act of firing the blaster gun?