Tettleton - I never claimed my stats were real and you just changed your whole fucking stats. You said 57 times more blacks than whites went to prison. You did not say they went to prison 57 times more often on a per accusation basis. Is it my fault you are unclear in your wording or that you don't even bother to back those statistics with a source?

And federal versus state prison is determinned based on *what* they are convicted of. Use a gun to commit a crime and the penalty is more severe including federal incarceration.

Please provide a stat from a real scientific survey or study (and not some OpEd piece with an agenda and an axe to grind) to back up your claims or your claims are false.

I haven't changed anything Draugnar. I gave stats for both state and federal incarcerations rates I found in peer reviewed journal articles. The 57 times the rate is posted earlier in the thread.
Read and save yourself some embarrasment.

Draugnar, I respect your intellect, but I think you are all wet on this subject.
I don't think that anyone can look at the numbers and come up with any statistical explanation for them.
The methodologies of the studies are such that they don't compare apples and oranges.
The US just system retains the racism of decades past.
The legal system is always the last part of society to change anyway.
As a result the war on drugs has been a shameful, racist episode for the United States.
I wonder what foreign journalist will do a Gunnar Mydral on the racist drug war.

You reread it. You said 57 times more blacks than whites. You never said 57 times more likely which is a rate. And please provide your source. No source, not a statistic.

Copy and paste it Draugnar or ignore or say fuck you, or whatever you need to do to bury your head in the sand.
What kind of individual interested in the "truth" would ignore such a thing?
You aren't interested in the truth on this issue at all.
You need to "know" the justice system is color blind so you can sleep well at night.
Whatever.
You simply have no credibility with me on the issue when you start quibbling semantics instead of realizing the facts staring you in the face.

So I guess you and Krellin and Putin can stay on the beach with your heads in the sand.

Tettleton' --- you are a a fucking moron. I have called you out OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER again and you can NEVER address my issues with you directly. You are a mental midget, AT BEST.....so the idea that you are calling other people ut is LAUGHABLE!!!

OK....asshole......"Can anyone defend socialism?" was the post. Putin defends it. ANYONE can defend ANY cause that anyone posts. So...YOU LOSE. You questions was seeking whether or not someone can propose a defense, and clealy someone can. So "YES" is the answer. And yet you idiot blather on. The most pathetic aspect of it all is that nobody else has called you a fucking moron for asking such a stupid and inane question. Fuck off....

Still waiting for those sources, fucktard.

And if I wrote that the sky was green and the grass was blue, I would not cry semantics when you corrected me
Grammar is not semantics.

A significant residual suggests that blacks are punitively policed, prosecuted, and sentenced. Sociologists of punishment link this differential treatment to official perceptions of blacks as threatening or troublesome (Tittle
1994). The racial threat theory is empirically supported by research on sentencing and incarceration rates. Strongest evidence for racially differential treatment is found for some offenses and in some jurisdictions rather than at the aggregate level. African Americans are at especially high risk of incarceration, given their arrest rates, for drug crimes and burglary (Blumstein 1993). States with large white populations also tend to incarcerate blacks at a high rate, controlling for race-specific arrest rates and
demographic variables (Bridges et al. 1994). A large residual racial disparity in imprisonment thus appears due to the differential treatment of African Americans by police and the courts.
http://www.econ.brown.edu/fac/glenn_loury/louryhomepage/teaching/Ec%20222/mass%20imprisonment%20and%20life%20course.pdf

For example, according to a recent report by Human Rights Watch (2000), Black male drug users are 13 times more likely than White male drug users to be sentenced to jail,
even though the estimated drug usage rates are equivalent for the two groups. Although researchers tend to agree that these statistics clearly demonstrate the disparate treatment that minority group individuals suffer within the legal system (see
e.g., Sommers & Ellsworth, 2001)A number of archival studies have illustrated that minority defendants (particularly Black defendants) are given longer sentences, and sentenced to the death penalty more often, than White defendants (Austin & Allen, 2000; Mustard, 2001; Williams & Holcomb, 2001).

http://digitalcommons.utep.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1016&context=christian_meissner

The heightened media and political attention to substance abuse and the drug trade in urban minority neighborhoods has promoted the public perception that illegal drugs are more prevalent in those neighborhoods than in more affluent white neighborhoods.[57] The reality has long been the reverse. In absolute numbers, there are far more whites committing drug offenses than blacks. The disproportionate rates at which blacks are sent to prison for drug offenses compared to whites largely originate in racially disproportionate rates of arrest for drug offenses.[58] Because the white population in the United States is slightly more than six times larger than the black population,[61] and the rate of drug use is roughly comparable between the two, the number of white drug users is significantly higher than the number who are black.
Blacks constitute 17.4 percent of the state's population,[95] and they accounted for 51.4 percent of drug arrests in the state. Blacks constitute 25.1 percent of New York City's population,[96] but represent 52.3 percent of all drug arrests in the city. Blacks in New York City alone represent only 10.7 percent of the state population, yetaccounted for 42.1 percent of all drug arrests statewide.

http://www.hrw.org/en/node/62236/section/8

<snore....> Tettleton, you area fucking morn, fucktard that NEVER answers people's specific claims. Loser. Asshole.

What is a "morn" Krellin?

Draugnar, the fact that I have ingrown hairs on my ass that are older and bigger than you gives me some consolation for being a "fucktard?" Whatever that is. I'll ask Krellin for some links to the middle school forums he hangs out on to see "fucktard" used in context since adults don't use it.

Tettleton. I doubt you have in grown ass hairs over 40 Yeats old, but you are clearly one giant ingrown one yourself
Quoting peoples opinions where they ay "studies suggest or show" does not constitute providing a reference to the statistics. It represents the worst kind of academia: regurgitating someone else's opinion and not thinking or researching for oneself. It's the same thing the Al Gore clones do.

I'm trying to picture a situation where someone would consider another person superior to them due to said other person bragging about having ingrown hairs that they have not removed for several years. In a sensitive part of their body, no less.

I'm coming up blank.

you really don't appreciate the level of pride involved

Draugnar, you chasing your tail if fun to watch. You ask for reference so I give them to you then you say the references weren't written by me so I'm uninformed.
Thanks for the chuckle dude.

As far as the ingrown hair it's funny how the glass if half empty attitude looked at it.
The glass is half full attitude would have realized the fact was that ingrown ass hairs are small and young so for one to be older and larger said everything about the object of the post.
I guess you have to put video links or pictures for the dolts.

Blacks serve almost as much time in prison for drug offenses (average of 58.7 months) as whites do for violent crimes (average of 61.7 months).

one out of every three black males born today can expect to spend time in jail during his life? If white male babies faced anything like such prospects, the politics of crime would look very different. We would almost certainly see this as an urgent national calamity, and demand a collective investment of public resources to forestall so many going to prison. Politicians would insist that we reduce criminal penalties, decriminalize nonviolent drug offenses, and promote alternatives to incarceration. The fact that there aren’t such calls today—or that if there are, they go largely unheeded—suggests that our criminal justice system is sustainable only because its disparate effects leave the majority off the hook.

“Felony disenfranchisement” laws render large numbers of African-American men ineligible to vote, and extend the racial disparities in the criminal justice system into electoral politics. As a result of these laws, one in eight black men of voting age is ineligible to vote.

http://scholarship.law.georgetown.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1378&context=facpub

The surveys conducted by SAMHSA-Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration-suggested that whites and blacks use illicit drugs at roughly the same rates. For example, according to the most recent survey, an estimated 49 percent of whites and 42.9 percent of blacks age 12 or older have used illicit drugs in their lifetime.
oas.samhsa.gov/nsduh/2k6nsduh/2k6results.pdf

50.7% of the US population is white, and 49% of whites used illicit drugs in their lifetime.
That means roughly 75 million whites committed crimes in their lifetimes with illicit drugs.
12% of the US population is black and 42% of them used illicit drugs in their lifetime.
That means roughly 12 million blacks committed crimes in their lifetimes with illicit drugs.

Yet for every one white in jail for drugs there are 13 blacks in jail for drugs.

Someone better put draugnar on suicide watch. His pea brain just hit overload.

Even though the SAMHSA-Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration that over six whites used drugs for each black who used drugs the whites don't get arrested, convicted, and incarcerated at the same rates as blacks.
Take New York State for example.

Blacks constitute 17.4 percent of the state's population,[95] and they accounted for 51.4 percent of drug arrests in the state. Blacks constitute 25.1 percent of New York City's population,[96] but represent 52.3 percent of all drug arrests in the city. Blacks in New York City alone represent only 10.7 percent of the state population, yetaccounted for 42.1 percent of all drug arrests statewide.

Yet there are more than six white drug users for each black drug user.

When cops see black they arrest, when juries see black the convict, when judges see black they incarcerate.

When cops see white they warn, when juries see white they acquit, when judges see white they give probation.

It's racist, it's disgusting, it's unamerican, and it's undeniable.

Unless of course you just disregard the facts.

What you're describing is 'justice' in a free market society. Your economic plans will only intensify these disparities. Btw, the current administration has implemented laws to correct for disparity in sentencing (Fair Sentencing Act of 2010). You might want to change your party affiliation.

Which is why we need ron paul for president in 2012. Decriminalizing drugs and ending the federal reserve

Ok, I'm going to sum up Tettleton's discussion here.

1. Define something I don't like in terms that have little bearing on reality
2. Use my new straw man to discuss it as though my straw man was reality
3. Insult people who disagree with you.
4. ??????
5. Profit?

You know, when I'm agreeing with Krellin, the black IS white, and the world has gone upside down.

You had a question, which was asking if anybody can defend socialism. It is clear that Putin can. Therefore you have your answer. Everything else is you trying to get off on going off on tangents and belittling people. I almost wish you were making decent arguments, because it would be nice to have an actual discussion about such matters without people getting nasty.

Putin, another new dimension in your nonsense. Where did the free market come from? This thread is about individual freedom at the expense of concentrated power in government. I guess when you can't justify concentrating power in government it's red herring time. Quite transparent, but you aren't very creative.

Klein, if you think Putin has defended anything that just destroyed your credibility, what was left after recognizing any cognition by Krellin at all. One post of your a non-starter. A new record?

I just love how I asked for a source study for the statistics and instead get some academia paper that quotes the study but doesn't include the actual study because no indices were included. Provide a link to the study. Otherwise you are still regugitating someone else's conclussion. If I can see the data and the findings from the researchers, I can draw my own informed conclussion and can either come to the same one Get has or my own with a reasoned explanation for it. I don't parrot other's opinions. I have my green belt in Six Sigma so I can interpret the questions asked to determine if it was a neutral or biased study and come to my own opinion of the validity of the researchers' claimed results.

Mhmmm. Thank you for proving my point about your "discussion" style. It didn't even take any time at all.

Ah, the Federal Reserve comes up. Does the Federal Reserve inhibit individual freedom? Now that is a sophisticated topic. I can carry out transactions without the US dollar-barter. I can make my own currency if I'm a drug dealer. The Fed doesn't take away my freedom. It damn sure devalues my currency, but I can put my savings in non-dollar denominated securities. If you do away with the Fed does that make me freer? What can I do without the Fed that I couldn't do with the Fed because the Fed will be replaced by a state institution or a private bank. Currency is one of those few public goods that doesn't affect individual freedom.
Of course if someone can produce an argument that currency and the Fed do inhibit individual freedom I'm all eyes.
That's rule out Putin, Krellin, and Jack Klein of course.