This thread is getting out of hand. As someone fairly familiar with the situation, I agree with Lando that he should not be booted from the tournament. I can't comment on whether or not a point reduction was appropriate.

If you haven't picked up on it - SD is being very sarcastic about what he was accused of. It was merely a technical breach of the gunboat communication rules and served no advantage.

Talking to people during the gunboat game is not worthy of a ban - great!

The mods take action against every member... - that's what you say.I say no way.

Planning with his "allies" in PM was merely a "technical breach"? Really? I would say using the draw, pause, and cancel was a technical breach, but using PM goes *way* beyond technical breach.

"The mods take action against every member... - that's what you say.I say no way."

As always, please feel free to email us with any specific concerns you may have; they will be looked into.

And I have said it should be Lando's call what is done in the case of the torunament (booting him and his allies or not). But I will say that allowing this "technical breach" (too which I say <*coughbullshitcough*>) brings into question the honesty of the end result of the tournament. At a minimum, if it happened at level 2, any and all participants in this PM collusion should be disbarred from making the finals. Kind of like doping in the Olympics and being stripped of the chance to move on to the next level.

I don't feel free to email you.

Then shut the fuck up and quit whining.

we've had enough discussion on this subject now, can we move straight to a vote .....

yes Draug, as I said he's being sarcastic. That is not what occured. No moves, alliance, or strategy were communicated. I believe SD said it earlier, his PM was basically "why are you hitting save/delaying?" which is a technical breach of the anon gunboat rules but not cheating by any stretch of the imagination.

I vote the mods lock this thread and be done with it!

@Barn he was being sarcastic - that is not what happened.

@Gen. Lee - Gotcha. Yes, that would just be a techincal violation unless they then responded about reducing the draw or whatever and they continued to discuss who they wanted reduced out or what not and why.

@Draugnar - it is an interesting point you make that "the mods should give ownership to the TD." I recently discovered that the moderators think differently about and treat differently different TDs and different tournaments.

I had a discussion with them the other day where they referred an action of goldfinger's as being him in his "TD shoes" and not his mod shoes. Sure enough, the action was one only a moderator could fulfill due to necessary priviledges. When I questioned what they did they said they give the TDs full power to make decisions within their tournaments.

So, it seems that we have conclusively identified an instance of mods treating different players differently.

And that costs 30% of your points.It's clearly written in the rulebook.

@Lando, the moderators do whatever the TD asks so long as it is within site rules. TD's do not answer to the moderator team, only to Kestas. I told you this much in my last email to you, which you really should read immediately.

@split, Kestas personally asked you to email him and explain what your concerns about the moderator team are. This is the best opportunity you are going to have to get your concerns addressed. If you don't take it there is nothing left to be accomplished here.

What concerns? I have no concerns. Why are you immagine things?

I skimmed it....

"Why the mods are being selective?" My apologizes if I incorrectly mistook that as a concern.

Yes,I see it could look like a concern.I am just curious about the reasons though.

And they have given them to you. Their decisions are based on many factors including newness to the site and recurrence of the offense.

Draugnar is right. Just because the *offences* might have been the same, that doesn't mean the *circumstances* were.

A cop catches you doing 90 in a 55 zone and you tell him "I'm trying to get to the hospital cause my dad was admitted after having a heart attack) and you get a police escort the rest of the way there. You get caught doing 75 in a 55 (15 MPH less) and your excuse is "I'm late for my kid's ball game!" andyou get a ticket or a warning depnding on how polite you were and what you record looks like when he runs it through the in-car warrants and history system. Same crime. In fact, arguably a lesser one in the second example, but very different circumstances.

Draugnar, next time a cop pulls you over, just tell him you're friends with the WebDip mod team, and he'll probably let you off.

Without getting into the technicality of the offense, I have noticed mention of TDs not answering to the mod team, only Kestas. Is this correct? Because if someone runs a tournament and they are able to bypass site rules, that is a big deal. At the very least, the players should be notified before signing up. As far as I am concerned, and until I am told differently, the TD is just a guy running a tournament. A tournament, I should add, that is on this site and should abide by all site rules. And when a site rule is broken, the TD should be notified, but the punishment is strictly from the mods. For gods sake, Lando wasn't just the TD of the gunboat tourney. He played in it to. How is that even remotely fair to give him any say in punishment for an infraction?

Lando's say should have applied to the punishment within the ongoing tournament. But as far as point docking fo rit, unless the rules of the tournament or game were clearly stated (for instance, our attempt to get an old school postal game going that was gunboat on the site, but full of postal communication), site rules and mod oversite should apply.

It is a precarious balancing act, I'm sure.

Well, Draug, that is what happened.

OK. But my question is this. Lando said:

"He broke a site rule, sure, and yes I was informed and yes I made a decision and enforced a "ruling." The moderators enforced their own decision and ruling, which I did not agree with - obviously, though, I had no say in their decision."

That sounds to me like he thinks that he believes that his ruling should have been enough. Kind of like a college football team discovering that they are being investigated by the NCAA and coming up with some sort of in-house punishment (voluntary reduction of scholarships, self-imposed post season ban, etc.) in hopes to not get a big slap on the wrist. Am I reading too much into this?

I wish I knew more details. Lando, feel free to PM me what you wanted done and what they did if you don't feel like discussing it here. I'm not a mod but will feel mroe comfortable getting behind you if I have more information. Don't answer here, but I'm looking to understand if the mods had refused to remove him from the games or if the mods had opted to remove him even though you didn't want him removed. As far as points, those are outside the domain of the TD and therefore are the mods to decide, not a TD's. But inclusion or exclusion in a tournament moving forward should be at the discretion of the TD.