Just my personal advice, that if you are already struggling with the maths then your later coursework will prove indeed to be quite a headache for you. If it makes you feel any better, I didn't blossom intellectually until my early thirties. At the least, I'd recommend a fallback option and if you are really really serious about the sciences, then I recommend that you spend one or two nights a week studying math (outside of your coursework) until you are able to compensate for any potential problems.

But honestly, lots of people work in science or engineering without a degree.

Yes, you can still be an engineering or CS major. But you should get some help if possible (like a tutor), and plan to have to work very hard on calculus at this point in life to get there. Lots of people find math easy up to a point, and then reach a point where it's no longer easy, and mistake it for having reached a point where they can no longer do it. If you've been good at math so far, then you can definitely do this. Just don't give up, and do what it takes to get over this hump. You have a lifetime to be glad you did.

i actually never struggled with math when it was just maths - i.e. thinking about nice solutions to purely mathematical problems. it was pretty much, when i had to apply mathematical structures to real world problems, when i constantly failed to get the point (or make the "translation"). if this encourages you, as long as you are able to know what for your maths is, then being not the best can be easily remedied. if not, math is nothing more then a kind of philosophical exercise and it should help you a lot in assessing whether math is a real problem.

The reason Calc is taught in HS is not so that you master Calc in HS. It is so you've already seen it in College, at which point, if you're going to be an Engineer, you're expected to master it. It's OK if you struggle now, so long as you think you can do well your second time through.

With that being said, the better you do now, the easier it will be later. If you can, find a tutor, or join a study group. I'd also recommend this website, which I found very helpful when I took DiffEq:

http://tutorial.math.lamar.edu/

abge is spot on.

(I had never done calc at all when I got to college).

An F in a high school course probably says way more about your work-ethic and general academic ability than it does about the specific subject you failed.

You'll wanna keep up with Progressive Woman though. Girls are really on the march to get your future engineering gig. Practice makes perfect I say. Scribble scribble.

Ignore the haters, CM. Calc is hard, and not every teacher is that good at teaching it either. That said, you can definitely learn it with work and a little help.

haters?

@Octavious: Well, we had a study guide, which I looked at and I knew that I knew how to do everything, so I didn't really study, but on the test, I couldn't do it fast enough, so I didn't finish, and I found a couple of the questions confusing as well, I thought I would still get a C for sure though, not an F.

@abge: yeah, now I really regret not taking Calc AB first and skipping straight to BC.... Well, at least I'll be able to learn some of the calculus again next year in Ap Physics, and hopefully master it then.

@Lando: "general academic ability" I had 4 As and 2 Bs last semester. This test is pretty much the only thing in the gradebook right now, which is why I have an F. I know I'll still get at least a C by the end of the semester, hopefully a B.

@semck: Thanks

Well, don't lose hope. That's probably the defining factor for most people. The F should be something to learn from, not something to beat yourself up with. As it is, it's only the 1st test and you still have a lot left to do, so you can still average out your grade to get a C+/B- by the end of the semester. Keep that in mind and continue to persevere.

On a side note, your GPA also plays a role in this. If you can ramp up your performance in the 2 classes that you got B's in and get a C in Calc, you'd still have a B+/A- GPA.

You really shouldn't have skipped straight to BC. That's your real problem. AB spends the first month or two giving you a proper introduction, and BC just drops you in the middle. Did your school really let you do that?

@ghug: At my school AB and BC start at the same place, BC just goes faster.

@CM

Is it too late to drop down into AB? You're not a senior (which is when people normally take BC Calc), so you'll still have time later on.

Computer science doesn't really use advanced math. The benefit from taking math and science is to learn to solve problems. Some of the best software engineers I've worked with were physics majors, not cs majors. That's because they spent their college years solving problems abstractly. Not with numbers, like engineers, but in terms of the variables involved. That takes an algorithmic approach to solving problems which is very handy when figuring out how to solve computer programs algorithmically.

But having said that, you shouldn't have to take more than linear algebra, the first year calc sequence and diffeqs for a cs major. And you definitely won't ever have to use them in the field ... Unless you go into scientific programming or something. So stick with it and learn how to program - preferably java or .net and you'll be set.

@abge: It's possible but it's really hard to do after the first quarter. And I don't think colleges really would like to see that I took BC the first semester and then dropped down to AB.

Most of my friends in college were engineers of some sort. You seem to be hitting your math ceiling with calculus (as I did) and let me tell you, the sort of math you need to be an engineer gets a whole lot harder than that. Granted, U of I is one of the best engineering schools in the world, but the simple information can't be too different no matter where you go.

@Invictus: Did you always get As in math before Calculus? What kind of work do you do?

Sometimes I think I should just take a whole different career path that isn't math/science related. I like history and got a 98.8% in AP US History without even trying, but I mean a history degree gets you nowhere.

As has been pointed out, a focus on CS doesn't need the advanced mathematics. It needs a solid grasp of logic and problem solving: something the study of applied mathematics and physics will help. I only took calc AB in HS (they didn't generally offer anything more advanced in the 80s) so don't be discouraged. And colleges will be more impressed in your maturity if you drop back and then take it next year, especially if you do much better.

But I still really like math and science too though

@Draug: Do you think computer science would be my best bet then?

"but I mean a history degree gets you nowhere."

Do you like sports, and would you like to coach someday? Teaching middle or high school history and coaching would be a great career combo if you were willing to give up higher-end earnings and be satisfied with making a difference in young people's lives.

I won't say for certain. Drop back to the lesser class and see if you do much better then try the advanced one next year. You still could be an engineer or a theoretical physicist. Maybe you jist tried jumping to the top of the math courses too quick.

@FlemGem: I'm not that interested in being a teacher.

@Draug: I don't think I really want to drop back into AB though. My teacher really discourages it, plus the teacher I would get if I switched is nowhere near as good as the one I have right now. There's still a good chance I'll get a 5 on the Calc BC exam too, because you only need like 60% to get a 5 (half the people who take it get 5s, but about 80-90% of kids who have had the teacher I have get 5s).

"Did you always get As in math before Calculus? What kind of work do you do?

Sometimes I think I should just take a whole different career path that isn't math/science related. I like history and got a 98.8% in AP US History without even trying, but I mean a history degree gets you nowhere."


I work for a law firm in downtown Chicago as a document monkey (even less glamorous than it sounds), and will be going to UW for law school next fall. I got As in math in high school, but I think that has more to do with non-honors classes (indeed, non AP classes) at my high school being a joke rather than any talent on my part. I would have been buried by calc in high school, I'm sure. It's a sad commentary on our public schools that you need to be in the "elite" classes (as I was for everything but math and senior year bio) to get anything resembling an education.

As for a history degree, if you go on to law school it's not a lifetime earnings death knell, necessarily. Hypothetically, you could major in history, get a sterling GPA, minor in some science field, and get into a really good law school and be a patent attorney. Cha-ching.

I think Draugnar's advice here is a bit misleading. If you're a real Computer Scientists, you're essentially a Mathematician who focuses on Computer Algorithms. Now, if you end up being a programmer, or even a computer engineer, you may not need that much math, but if you're plan is to go into CS because you are afraid of math, you're in for a rough time.

HS History doesn't prepare you at all for taking real History courses, imho. I wouldn't become a History major just because you did well without trying in some HS History course. Again, you'll be in for a rude awakening when you get to college.

There goes draug again taking the credit (i.e. criticism for my advice).

@abgemacht: since it was my advice you were criticizing, I will respond. I agree that if you go into REAL computer science, you'll need a lot of mathematic ability. You'll end up in some kind of encryption studies, or morphing vector splines or some crazy shot that's way beyond me. But I would bet that 95% of cs majors want to get jobs making lots of money in the real world. Mostly doing business applications involving UI, db and some logic layer between.

That's the world of professional software engineers that I refer to when I say you'll never need to know how to find the volume of a solid using a tripple integral.

"Well, we had a study guide, which I looked at and I knew that I knew how to do everything, so I didn't really study, but on the test, I couldn't do it fast enough, so I didn't finish, and I found a couple of the questions confusing as well, I thought I would still get a C for sure though, not an F."

This is why you failed and will continue to fail if you don't change your attitude. Math requires time and dedication. You can't stare at a sheet and declare you've learned Math. You need to work out problems so that you can understand the nuances of each one.