Yeah, that is happy news... too bad they're gonna suck. Shoulda drafted Durant... oh wait, you did.

I don't care if they deserved it before they cheated... maybe I deserved an A before I cheated on my exams. Maybe Lance deserved the first four Tour de France victories. Who knows? Maybe Barry Bonds deserved the first 500 homers. He still cheated; doesn't matter.

Oh, I don't mind if they suck, my standards aren't really that high.

That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying that the fact is that they will eventually get in on those merits.

I don't know, if the steroid era continues to paint players in such a tainted way for 15 more years, these guys will be done. That's how long you get...

Any PED user should have their numbers erased during the time they were proven to have used PEDs - knowingly or not - and they should have a Hall of Fame ban. Players like Roger Clemens are the very reason that Craig Biggio fell 39 votes short.

I fully agree with you, I'm just being realistic. If Edgar doesn't make it though, I will be legitimately pissed at the world.

He ought to be in... the day Bud Selig retires - assuming his next in charge isn't going to end up his little puppet, as a lot of commissioners tend to become nowadays - Pete Rose should be unbanned from baseball and steroid usage should be cracked down on with more than a 50-game suspension. Simple as that. If the next commissioner can accomplish those two things in one day, he can retire too; the league ought to let shared revenue pay the rest of his contract.

This is a pretty good and entertaining rant that succinctly summarizes the more rational approach as opposed to crucifying one the best athletes of my (well, mine and old. Not your) generation.

http://blogs.thescore.com/djf/2013/01/09/nobody-wants-me-to-write-about-the-hall-of-fame-2/

They crucified Pete Rose's playing career for doing nothing wrong during his playing career yet they can't crucify Barry Bonds' for cheating because he's Barry Bonds? Sorry, Yonni, the logic doesn't add up.

Who the fuck is they?
I'm talking about you and me. I'm also not talking about Pete Rose.

I'm talking about a gross lack of understanding of te impact of steroids on statistics as well as a (purposefully?) naive approach to the prevalence of other substances used my people in their era and others.

FFS, Tim Raines got more votes than Bonds and he public ally stated that the reason he always dove head first was because he kept a vile of blow in has back pocket. Jesus Christ. Ever heard of greenies? Amphetamines?

They just elected someone to the hall of fame who actively kept blacks out of the sport. So don't give me some moral grandstanding about the sanctity of the sport. Barry Bonds is one of the 5 best baseball players of ALL TIME. It's a joke that he isn't in the hall.

It's a joke that he's even considered... he *CHEATED.* United States Presidents actively tried to keep African Americans out of the country, but guess what Yonni, they were still Presidents. There's a county official in Martinsville that actively tries to keep black people out of this state as a whole but he's been reelected twice. That's not cheating, it's just being stupid. Diving into first base isn't cheating.

Yonni, I'd be thrilled to kick everyone out of the Hall that used amphetamines. It wasn't tested for when they got in so that will never happen. Those tests started in 2008; it's bullshit to say that that's equivalent to the PEDs we talk of here.

And, by the way, Barry Bonds tested positive for amphetamines in 2009, you know, in case that all of a sudden doesn't matter to you.

"It's like telling our kids you can cheat, you can do whatever you want, and it's not going to matter."

- Goose Gossage

I'm pissed Piazza and Bagwell were unfairly hurt by steroid implications--

No evidence that they did it, no absurd numbers, they didn't hit 73 HRs...they rose and declined naturally...

They fared better than Clemens, Bonds, and Sosa, and rightfully so, but they should've gotten in this time, and now they'll have to likely wait...Maddux will surely be a first-ballot guy next year, Glavine and Frank Thomas are also likely HOFers...

And the year after THAT Randy Johnson and others pop up. It's just ridiculous.

They'll likely get in--and Biggio, HIS being excluded when he's skinny as a rail and a member of the 3,000 hit club is just absurd-but this is ridiculous...

All these writers saying "they're not ready yet" to tackle this issue--

GROW. UP.

Biggio and Piazza deserved it... Bagwell is borderline at best. Biggio got overlooked because of cheaters like Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, and Sammy Sosa. Piazza got overlooked because he's big and powerful and people think that means he automatically did steroids.

And he had back acne. Gasp!

I'd like to meet the one sportswriter who decided that Aaron Sele was worthy of the HoF.

And the 8 who voted for Clemens but not Bonds. Mind boggling.

Here's my biggest issue with the steroids and HoF debate: why do we (and sportswriters, more specifically) get to sit in judgement of these players for doing what any rational ballplayer would have done at the time, given the circumstances and the rules of the game? Is baseball something so sacred to Americans that we use it as a mirror for all of society's ills, or is it merely a game played by humans with a knack for gaining the biggest advantage possible?

Are we so torn at the notion of cheating in baseball because it violates the "purity" of the game, or are we upset because they got away with it? Personally, if they cheated and got away with it, they should be let in the HoF, IMO. Joe Niekro was caught doctoring baseballs, Tim Raines would slide into second spikes up, Ty Cobb would sharpen his spikes to discourage players from tagging him out when sliding, Don Sutton was an admitted scuffer, George Brett used too much pine tar, Whitey Ford used to cut balls with his wedding ring, and Gaylord Perry used to (among other things) load the ball up with so much rosin that it would be nearly unhittable and would hit the catcher's mitt with a puff of smoke. Cheaters all, yet they're all in the HoF.

Why get so high and mighty with steroid users? Do you think it makes us bad human beings for letting in those players who used steroids to crush records, turn themselves into superhumans, and make the game look like child's play? Why not pass moral judgement on all players? Ty Cobb was such a notorious racist that he once cut a black bellhop with a knife for being "uppity."

My point is that you can't pick and choose certain rule breakers to vilify while glorifying others guilty of also breaking the rules. There aren't degrees of rule breaking. A ball hit in foul territory is foul the moment it crosses the line, not once it's ten feet past, while those that land inches over the line are suddenly OK. Rule breakers are rule breakers and you don't get to define which ones violated the integrity of the game because, let's be honest, they all did. Any rational player will bend the rules to gain an advantage. Just don't be so blinded by rage because the steroids era happened right under your nose that you ignore baseball history and treat the game like it is absolutely holy.

"I'd like to meet the one sportswriter who decided that Aaron Sele was worthy of the HoF."

Most likely it was some reporter who covered Sele locally and was friendly with him and did it as a favor...

I mean, he'd never get in the Hall, but it WOULD be kind of cool to be able to tell your grandkids, "Hey, I got ONE vote for the Hall of Fame!"

So if that's the case...meh, no harm done, and that'd actually be a really nice gesture.

"A ball hit in foul territory is foul the moment it crosses the line, not once it's ten feet past"

Actually, that isn't true. A ball can go foul and come back so long as no contact with the ground or a player is made. In other words, if it wavers over in the air and a breeze catches i and blows it back, it is still a fair ball. And as long as it is fair when it makes contact with the ground in the infield and does go foul until it crosses into the outfield, it is still fair. So ti is possible to hit a ball, have it hit the ground inside the third base line then hit the ground again outside the foul ball line in the outfield and it be a fair ball.

does *not* go foul until...

My thoughts very quickly - it is completely unfair to blame these players in any way shape or form. The league and sport culture are where these problems are stemming from. It is unfair to blame these individuals or to single them out. The only reason they are pointed to is because they are star players - they were always stars and they happened to get caught (because they were stars). Anyone who thinks that the norm in professional sports is not to be on some form of steroids is completely misinformed. While steroids are in no way a good thing, they are common in this industry, accepted and it is almost impossible to succeed without some level of performance enhancing drug.

So, do not blame the players. It is a much bigger issue than that.

Do you all really think that Biggio, Piazza, Thomas, Johnson, Bagwell, etc. did not use steroids? What makes you believe so vehemently that these players are "clean"?

I would would bet significant amounts that each of these players abused performance enhancing drugs. This conversation is ridiculous but also highlights how ludicrous the MLB drug policy is.

Almost as bad as the NFL --> did you know that the suspension for testing positive for weed is the same as for steroids?

Well, there is a difference between cheating and breaking the law. Steroids are a controlled substance and use of them for purposes other than their approved FDA use is a violation of Federal law.

If it's the league structure that is the cause of steroid use, altering the league structure to promote steroid use as a method for bettering one's chance at the Hall of Fame is not the way to go.

Right, but what about taking steroids so you can make the league? Most players tale steroids and most do not get caught. This is plain and simple, if you are not using illegal drugs to improve your chances of making the show chances are you are not making the show. I think most people geeve about the HoF implications when their organization forces them to dope.

So you'd rather accept steroids than get rid of them?

No, thats not what I said.

I think it is unfair to penalize the above mentioned players for participating in a league-wide issue. The league has problems it NEEDS to deal with. I am in no position to enact change. I like following/watching baseball. However, in doing so I know substantially all players are on drugs. So, really, they are not cheating in effect. I geeve who does what, it doesn't impact me from a fans perspective. From a social perspective, sure it is destructive and it should change.

Draug, you missed my point, although mine was poorly worded. I should have included the word "land" somewhere before "foul territory" to emphasize what I was getting at.

Steroids don't make a player better able to throw a ball or hit a ball. They may make a player do so faster or farther, true, but the inherent skill is still present.

How can it deal with the issues without giving out penalties? It's cheating.. that simple. There are plenty of players that aren't on drugs - the ones that don't get positive tests.

2WL, I can hit and throw a ball. I have hit pitching machines at 90 MPH well before and I've hit off pitchers throwing 85. I can throw 70 or 75 on a good day, close to what a typical D-1 infielder would throw.. The players are in the major leagues because they have incredible skill in those areas, so much that they manage to become that good. They are incredible players. They don't need to cheat to show us that. However...

I'm with Lando in saying that it is a league-wide problem. I don't think everyone does it but I don't think many people are as non-guilty as we think. I also don't think we should loosen penalties in any way... however, it's a problem that has resulted in both trainers and players being forced to give out these drugs in order to keep them on top. If they didn't have substantial impacts, that wouldn't be happening.

A good article on this topic below. Bill Simmons tends to be the best sports writer around, imho.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/47062/sports-guy-time-machine