Never ceases to amaze me. I knew it was SplitDiplomat from the moment I saw he wouldn't draw.

He was at 10, actually. He gained two that he wouldn't have (because he was stuck eternally trading territory in Yugoslavia) when Russia first CD'ed, then got to run through empty SC's when the auto-destroy took over.

Russia CD'd in S07, but it looks like he was toast then anyway... he would have lost Vienna and Warsaw no matter what he did. If someone resigns because they're losing, is the etiquette still to draw the game, even late in the game?

If you could convince those idiots about it.But he's so stupid to see it,he's just born to cry...

You should write better if you're going to call people idiots.

Boohoo, it's solely up to the player whether to draw or not, if he wants to take advantage of a CD to win, it's his choice. If I was in that position, I would have kept going till either a 2-way draw was forced or a stalemate line was made, you two failed to do either.

Yes,I should spell to such idiots.

Even if they are losing, they should still stick around. The argument I have been hearing is that its ok for a person to go for the solo after a CD bc CD's are apart of the game.

NO THEY ARE NOT!!!!!

If we were playing this F2F, there would be no CDs. Therefore, games should end if there is a late CD. Draw is the ethical. Going for a solo here just makes you look like your are obsessed with points.

The best players don't need a CD. Hence why I never win.

Doesn't mean you wouldn't win anyway, but it might have taken you 10 more seasons, but you don't know. That's why you draw.

But Split has to be one of the best players, he has teh most fake internet points!!!

I'm honestly trying to understand where the line is.

If someone CDs in, say, F08 and they have 2 centers and are surrounded, it's clearly ludicrous to draw. But obviously, if someone with 9 centers in a good position and no obvious threats CDs, I think you should draw. How much uncertainty does there have to be about how it affects the rest of the game for a late CD to require a draw?

Quite honestly, even an extra few centers can seriously change the tide of a game...obviously ...

No CD ever requires a draw and no Diplomacy board ever requires honor. Just because it's not required doesn't mean you shouldn't follow it.

Sure. I'm just asking what kind of community standard people are trying to hold others to here. I'm new here, but it seems silly to end games early when someone quits because they're losing. The only thing the CD does is make them get eliminated, which was happening anyway...

1. No, he's not obligated to draw if there isn't a stalemate line
2. Yes, everyone thinks it's a jerk move to take advantage of a CD
3. No, there is no way to not play with someone who does it when you play anon live games because there aren't enough live players to make them all password protected.

repeat every time someone CD's in a live game.

All I know is that I made it a little easier on him early on. I ended up trying to play on my son's droid while doing some stuff with the family. Didn't work so hot. I misentered some orders right off the bat. Oh well.

Good on Split for winning with Italy. I think when CD's happen later in the game then that is just part of the game. I'm not going to stop. It's disappointing to the losers and happy for the winners. If you keep getting yourself in the position late in the game your luck should even out.

The real problem is that SplitDiplomat ONLY wins (at least in games that I play) when there is a CD that puts him in complete control of the game. Any dispute about whether or not such is the case in the instant game is ludicrous. Russia wasn't in the greatest of positions, but he wasn't in danger of immanent death. Even if he had lost a few SC's, he would have been alive enough to cause problem, or at least make Split defend a bit. With him gone, it was full steam ahead with absolutely NO OPPOSITION. As I said, Split does this crap all the time, over and over. His points should be stripped from him.

I don't really see any sense in arguing about this, but looking at the map in F07, once the army in Budapest was destroyed (which was destroyed because Serbia was taken before the CD, and Warsaw was guaranteed to be taken by Germany), there was no set of moves over the next year that would have kept Italy from rumania or budapest at all. Russia was definitely going to die. Russia had a useless fleet in Armenia and two armies that could easily be cut by Italy.

And given that Finland did fall faster than it would have with StP supporting, Germany probably got StP a turn or two sooner than he would have if Russia was entering support hold orders. The primary beneficiary of the CD was probably Germany, and even then, the benefit is just getting StP a turn or two better than Russia's best case scenario, which may not have even happened.

Maybe the fact that we have to argue about all of this makes the game questionable enough it should be drawn, but I really don't see why we should view a late-game CD any differently from a late-game misorder or a late-game dumb move--especially from a country well on its way out.

Russia might have been killed but Germany and France could have put up a pretty simple stalemate had Russia's territory been distributed differently. Without a CD, that would have been a draw. MM and Nietzsche both know what they are doing well enough to coordinate that one.

No need to point out the FACTS to that moron because he doesn't want to see it,his score is to lose every game and then bitching about the one who defeats him.He's trying to prove France lost Marseille and Spain because of a Russian CD and he would have lost Scandinavia the year after because of the Russian CD. You are trying for nothing with that lost case of him...

Mmm, yeah. MM may not have gone for Moscow in S08 if he thought Russia might defend it, and then SD may not have gotten into Silesia when he did. Once that happened, the chances of a stalemate got pretty low. It's not so much the distribution of Russia's centers, but the mad rush to beat everyone to them, that really altered the dynamic of the game, even if it gave MM an easy three centres.

Still not sure I agree with drawing when a player quits because they're losing--a player who's losing and playing irrationally can do also sorts of stuff to unbalance the game, and I'm of half a mind that ought to be part of the game in whatever form it takes--but I see where everyone's coming from.

Russia wasn't "losing." He suffered a set back or two, but if he had staying, he would have delayed the Italian advance long enough for a stalemate line to be established.

Split, there , YOUR score is abuse the system every time. I don't think you can win without taking advantage of a CD. You're a lost case.

Actually, I think SD is right. He never got any German centers, just Warsaw, which he only got because MM went for Moscow... and he won because France couldn't set up a stalemate in the Med. The CD didn't really affect the distribution of Russia's centers between Germany and Italy. I don't see what the big deal is about.

Just don't become the "I can't help it if someone CDs so why don't I buttfuck them while they're gone instead" person.

Maybe, MM. I don't see anything Russia could have done in 1908 that would have changed the game, except keeping StP from you a little longer. Disbanding more strategically wouldn't have made a difference in keeping Budapest or Rumania, with Italy in the Black Sea. Russia was definitely done for. Maybe you've had legitimate grievances with SD in the past, but I don't think this game is a big deal. Anyway, I've probably spent enough time arguing about a game I didn't play.

@bo_sox48, yeah, I hear you. Personally I'd probably err on the side of drawing, but I just like to keep people happy.

The point is that drawing is the honorable thing to do. It is saying, "I could have pressed my advantage, but I respect the community enough to not do so..." It's actually a sign of strength, not weakness. Any hack can take advantage of a CD. Obviously SplitDipshit doesn't respect anything but his precious stash of point -- most of which he's stolen from others when he refuses to draw.

"Russia wasn't "losing." He suffered a set back or two" - after all is said! A legend !!! I told you Stackelberg,no way you can talk to him about anything.

Split, nobody is losing until they are gone in my book. I've been a one-center player and snuck in somewhere, gotten a build, and finished with 5 or 6 centers. Pure luck, sure, but it happens.