This is going to sound profoundly ignorant, but I think philosophy is a big waste of time. Assuming a 90 year life span, you have approximately 946,070,539 useful seconds on this Earth. You have to make each second count.

The average joe is not going to make some shattering conclusion about life or anything else. Each man must develop his own personal philosophy and stand by it. Do not worry yourself with philosophy if your own personal philosophy works well for you. Instead, use your valuable, limited time to help others and make yourself a better person.

The point of philosophy?

I agree with Aristotle's approach via the "Nichomachean Ethics," that philosophy should be a practical guide to life...

The trouble is that life, as Plato illustrates, may very well be more abstract and complex than first may be thought, and so more an exploration of these abstract ideas is needed, I think, to inform any better understanding of the concrete.

Why should we care to understand at all?

In short, for the same reason Jack Tanner/Don Juan gives in "Man and Superman" on the same question:

Life is a progression, and the only way to truly progress and gain higher status and faculties, as a person and as a race, is to understand more and to a greater degree and then act upon that understanding--any less and we are nothing more than a mere animal and, theological rationale or not--I won't get into that--man is NOT merely the same as any other animal qualitatively.

@Mafialligator:

Do you still hold that view given my--hopefully--more-practical view of philosophy, ie, as that of a tool that should be used to help oneself and others and aid progression?

@Gunfighter:

Well, if I can't understand your dilemma, how cna I be useful and help you?

Philosophy is about gaining understanding...without an understanding of it to at least some degree, I'd argue that any real and lasting help is unattainable, as the answers that will provide such help require complex thought, the like of which philosophic enquiry directly deals with.

I was actually just being annoying. But the truth is, I still put very little stock in philosophy, both as way of deciding how to live your own life (the fact is people actually live their lives according to social norms) or as a way to progress and develop higher faculties. Sciences and social sciences are better at increasing understanding and such than philosophy will ever be.

Philosophy in the sense that your life should have a general direction is a good thing. Talmudic parsing of like what goes on in these threads is worse than useless.

Life is what you make of it. Fact is, you're here, an insignificant speck on this planet, which is an insignificant speck in this galaxy, which is an insignificant speck in this universe (which, depending on who you talk to, is an insignificant speck considering all the multiverses blah blah). There's no higher power at play here. Your only inborn objective is to survive as long as possible -- not even to survive, because obviously no one makes it out alive, but to put that off as long as you're willing.

So with no higher purpose inherent to life, no "point," it logically follows that for there to be one, someone has to make it for you. And relying on other people to give you your purpose doesn't make sense, because then you're just getting their purpose for you, not your own purpose for yourself. If you can live with that, more power to you, and it's not wrong, but I suspect on some level the idea of living life as someone else's instrument isn't going to sit well.

So then the only solution left is to give yourself a purpose. Why bother? Because there's a natural aversion to death inherent in your instincts, and it take some really serious impetus to overtake that aversion and kill yourself. Far more constructive to find some way to deal with that aversion and make something of the time you're alive instead of building up the impetus to end it as quickly as you can.

Those sciences don't give credence to the irrational portion of human existence, though...

Appolonian and Dionysian forces--order and chaos.

For and exploration of the former, science may well cover a lot of ground.

But to truly practice or utilize chaos in all of it's glory, more than science and analytical logic is needed, as the chatoic, ever-changing Dionysian force is contrary to science's logical, Appolonian approach.

So science is part of the answer, yes, but only part--it can never be the whole answer, and so philosophy, literature, art, music, all of this must fill the void there.

@ Mafialligator

I agree with you. I had never thought about how social norms could be the biggest influence in my life. I suppose it is a little too convenient that I live my life a lot like my friends and relatives.

@ obiwanobiwan

I disagree. I do not think Philosophy is about gaining understanding. This is going to sound cynical and probably ignorant, but I think philosophy is an attempt to conveniently oversimplify the complexities of human life. I do not think philosophic inquiry has solved any real problems.

I try to live my life in accordance with Christian beliefs and carry out the plan that I feel God has for my life. I also hold the Confucian belief that everyone is born basically good, but society corrupts almost everyone.

I do not spend much time trying to untangle the complexities of life, because such an effort would be futile at best. Philosophers have been trying to figure out every aspect of human existence for thousands of years. I would be a much better person if I spent my limited time on Earth attempting to help the world as much as possible.

"So science is part of the answer, yes, but only part--it can never be the whole answer, and so philosophy, literature, art, music, all of this must fill the void there."

I disagree with that statement. I think religious faith is the only thing that can fill the gap between human knowledge (science) and the "void". Whether God is real or not, you cannot say that religious people do not have wholesome lives.

Philiosophy is the creation of systems of ideas for the people who can't be bothered to think for themselves.

@ Obi

Not wishing to be overly critical of your weekly efforts, but haven't you done this one once or twice before?

Effortlessly throws out another juicy piece of bait that some stupid american takes exception with. Shakes head in disbelief at how gullible some people can be.

I have never seen a question where the philosophical answer was better than the scientific one. To me, philosophy seems like nothing more than opinion made grandiose by time.

Ha ha wrong thread. Sorry obi-american, I'll repost my brilliant comment in the appropriate thread.

@ Octavious

"Philiosophy is the creation of systems of ideas for the people who can't be bothered to think for themselves."

I could not agree more.

@ mapleleaf

Yes. Take your jealously-fueled anti-Americanism to a different thread.

Paraphrasing some quote I heard out of context some time said by Socrates, written down, of course, by Plato:
"The unexamined life is not worth living."

^^ Bullshit. All life is precious and worth living. Anyone who thinks self-examination is a requirement for worthiness should be examined - by a psychiatrist.

Does anyone else not see the oddity of claiming philosophy is worthless while also claiming to live according to the philosophical tenets of Christianity and Confucianism? One wonders how that is possible.

Who declared philosophy as worthless? I declared a very *specific* statement from a specific philosopher as worthless. But I didn't declare philosophy as worthless. I really wonder sometimes about your reading comprehension skills, Putin. Do you intentionally twist words, or are you just that obtuse?

I was referring to Gunfighter - who said it was a "big waste of time"/. Did you claim to abide by Confucianism and Christianity anywhere in this thread? Good grief.

i agree that the unexamined life is not worth living - but only if you know your life is unexamined.

lol. which would imply examination.... etc ad infinitum.

philosophy is certainly important. it is nothing more than an attempt to answer hard questions. as long as people continue to have these questions it will continue to be important.

even if you think the ideas of philosophers of the past is bunk it is still worth studying if only because it has been so influential on the line of thought of the world's leaders.

that said everyone should have a go at coming up with his own personal philosophy. i've done so, i suspect many of you have as well. it is legitimately fulfilling to do that.

@Putin: I see it. I was going to comment, but I'm honestly not sure where to start.

I point to my previous comment on Talmudic parsing.

Tough crowd eh Obi?

The word "philosophy" comes from the Greek φιλοσοφία (philosophia), which literally means "love of wisdom".

Anyone can lead a richer and more enjoyable life by increasing their knowledge and understanding and flexibility of thought. Obviously the more cognitive capacity you have will affect how big and bright this playground can be, and also how dark and dangerous it can be.

Everyone has some philosophy, its part of being human. No-one has an unexamined life.

Beyond *mere* enjoyment, the study of others philosophical systems will open doors in your mind that may have stayed closed until you were 79 or dead.
Beyond the fun of experimentation with ideas, it real fruit is helping us discover what is most valuable in life. No small task and really nothing more important.

Philosophy is the opposite of simplification. How can thinking critically be an effort to simplify? Any philosophical idea is merely a suggestion, not a brand label to buy into.

Philosophy has nothing to do with science. That is to mistake it for opinion about practical matters. A question such as 'why does a boat float?' is a science question. A question like 'should I buy a boat for my own pleasure?' is a philosophy question.
As you said Obi, science only goes so far, beyond that there is only your own thoughts. (paraphrasing ;)

Philosophy is not necessarily related to the outward appearance of things. My lifestyle might appear to conform to social norms, but what is happening in my mind you will never know. I may go to work and play well with others, but that doesnt necessarily mean I like you or agree with you.

Which is a good segue to the next poster....

Sorry about that Putin. Coming right after my post, I thought it was directed at me. Metagaming culpable.

LOL! Mea Culpa auto corrected interestingly.

@ Putin33

I would not consider Christianity a philosophy. Christianity is the belief that Jesus Christ, The Son of God, died to save everyone from sin. I did not say I subscribed to Confucianism. I said I agreed with the Confucian belief that everyone is born "good".

"that said everyone should have a go at coming up with his own personal philosophy."

I agree. Thuc + 1

"Philiosophy is the creation of systems of ideas for the people who can't be bothered to think for themselves."

I disagree. Religion is the creation of ways of thinking for the people who can't be bothered to think for themselves; philosophy, however, is a system of ideas which allows a person to think for himself.

@ gigantor

What is a religion but a philosophy backed up by the threat of violence?