Forum
A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Tolstoy (1962 D)
02 Dec 10 UTC
Rank the diplo territories in order of importance using Instant Runoff Voting (IRV)
Vote for the territories you feel are important by listing them in order of importance.
41 replies
Open
Agent K (0 DX)
18 Nov 10 UTC
Grand Festive High Wizard Tournament
Where is Abgemacht? What is the status of ye old tournament? I know my games are over
41 replies
Open
stratagos (3269 D(S))
06 Dec 10 UTC
Crapity
Xmas approachs.
My wife wants to know what I want
I don't actually *want* anything.
Suggestions?
83 replies
Open
numberzero (127 D)
04 Dec 10 UTC
Pushing on to win after a major CD is poor sportsmanship
Or after a first turn CD; especially if more than one. At least thats how I view it.
36 replies
Open
Crazy Anglican (1067 D)
05 Dec 10 UTC
A December Holiday Survey
Please respond if you so choose.
44 replies
Open
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
06 Dec 10 UTC
Austria needed.
We deliberately left you some room to grow, so its not like you're just jumping in to be killed
7 replies
Open
Hirsute (161 D)
05 Dec 10 UTC
The best books of all time
I've been working on a list of the supposed "best books of all time" to act as a sort of reading list for myself. I finished it tonight and I figured I'd post it here to see what people think.
237 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
05 Dec 10 UTC
World of Warcraft - Cataclysm drops Tuesday morning.
While I will continue playing games,my forum participation will be dwindling. Send a PM if you need me.
3 replies
Open
deathpod (102 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
Mod request. Is this the right place?
Sorry if this is the wrong place.
Game Id # 4098. Looking for an unpause hopefully. One of our players has been AWOL for 13 days and we would like to just have the game unpaused and let him slide into civil disorder so we can finish.
7 replies
Open
Crazy Anglican (1067 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
Greek gods and goddesses
Hi all I was wondering if you had any clip art of this nature. No nudity. To be used in a game I'm developing for a 6th grade class. Pleas post a link if you have any.
8 replies
Open
patizcool (100 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
wta gunboat
Come and join. We got 2, starting in 25 minutes, let's go people

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=43500
1 reply
Open
figlesquidge (2131 D)
28 Nov 10 UTC
Wikileaks
With wikileaks apparently on the verge of another major release of classified information, it felt about time the webDip community discussed the issue:
Should wikileaks publish sensitive information they are given, and should it be censored?
204 replies
Open
The Lord Duke (3898 D)
05 Dec 10 UTC
Passwords
How do you find out a password if you would like to join a game?
8 replies
Open
Maniac (184 D(B))
05 Dec 10 UTC
Come play with me
gameID=43452 please join if you can retreat and build quickly to avoid dragging a game on unnecessarily
0 replies
Open
ormi (100 D)
04 Dec 10 UTC
fast game start soon check in!!!
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=43360
5 replies
Open
Tolstoy (1962 D)
01 Dec 10 UTC
Has America Become the Evil Empire?
Well, has it?
55 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
01 Dec 10 UTC
Should I have a problem with this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_village

With regard the 'do you guys find this offensive thread' i came across this idea....
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orathaic (1009 D(B))
01 Dec 10 UTC


Here's how it breaks down, some people find it sinful to have sex with someone of the same gender, i htink that's fine and these people have the right to their opinion.

I have a problem with their point of view not being represented, if only because it is harder to fight an unseen enemy. I can't oppose their views if they keep them hidden in some dark secret organisation somewhere, let's say. Or if society decides that it is not politically correct to express those views.

In fact a lot of the obsession over what is 'politically correct' is somethign i take issue with. In a mature and civil society we are able to discuss varying positions and agree to disargee.

We don't need everyone to think the same thing, we just need everyone to be civil with each other. So i have a problem with 'gay culture'/'gay village' not because i feel it is wrong or immoral, but because i don't feel the gay people in my community should feel the need to hide away in their own bars and sections of the city and not mix with others 'normal' people.

It would be wrong if all the jews in my city felt the need to keep to one area, or all the muslims. I take the opinion that it is wrong for the lgbt community aswell.

Fine they are not a religion, but religion is about a way of life, and i'm sure some see being part of the lgbt community as a way of life too.

My basic arguement is that requiring everyone to be Politically Correct (PC) forces minority communities who differ to segregate off into their own little private social spheres.

However I don't have a magic plan to improve this situation. I'd prefer to have Christians, Jews, Muslims and Atheists, both Gay and Straight, being comfortable going into any bar in my city.

Being comfortable displaying their life choices (holding hands with their boyfriend, say, or wearing a head scarf/cross)

(This neglects that bars/clubs are a place people often go to engage in courtship, so it makes sense that a woman who doens't want to be hit on by guys will go to a gay bar... Or a man who doesn't want to be hit on by guys will not go to a gay bar, but i can concede that point without faulting my premise...)
orathaic (1009 D(B))
01 Dec 10 UTC
</rant>
Yobgal (515 D)
01 Dec 10 UTC
I probably won't remember to double check for responses. There are roots of some minority communities being formed because of racism and oppression. (Srsly Indian Reservations!) Maybe some still are. You touched on the fact that bars/clubs are a place people "often go to engage in courtship," but you forgot a major point.

Gay communities (and black communities, Jewish communities, Asian communities, etc.) are formed because individuals tend to gravitate toward like minded individuals. Eventually, you have individuals finding a group of like minded people, and so on. I have a lot of friends who are gay, or members of an ethnic minority. We hang out in what you deem "normal" areas all the time.

Your misconceptions of gay bars are a little weird, but that's beside the point....
Mafialligator (239 D)
01 Dec 10 UTC
Well I'm glad you at least realized the practical/courtship side of the argument. That is a fairly major part of the deal.
"i don't feel the gay people in my community should feel the need to hide away in their own bars and sections of the city and not mix with others 'normal' people." - That would be wonderful, and in my own experience that has not been a problem. At least in the cities I've lived in, LGBT people don't limit themselves to the village.
But at the same time, people with things in common tend to cluster. It's not really that surprising. Almost every city in North America has a Chinatown and a Little Italy. As well as numerous other regions that are inhabited by a disproportionately large number of members of a specific ethnic minority. Obviously "gay" isn't an ethnicity, but it's not surprising that certain businesses and establishments would tend to pop up which cater specifically to gays. It's even less surprising that most of these establishments tend to be places that deal in something related to sex in some way or another. (Strip joints, night clubs and bars, primarily. I realize night clubs and bars deal mostly in alcohol, but lets not be naive, sex enters into it. If a gay guy isn't really looking for any, and really does just want a drink, he won't go to a gay bar.) And having them all clustered together isn't just convenient. It's safer. For a group that has faced discrimination and persecution, there is strength in numbers, and there is something to be said for having a place where you can go where you won't face stigma, scorn, discrimination, or in some sad, but undeniably real situations, actual violence. It would be nice if that were unnecessary, but I just don't think we're there yet. But yes, if the whole world were "safe" then we wouldn't need "safe spaces".
orathaic (1009 D(B))
01 Dec 10 UTC
I'm not agaisnt the existance of places where gay people can feel safe.

My arguement is that by encouraging this kind of segregation you do nothing to push the world towards being more accepting, by avoiding conflict - be it reasoned debate, peer pressure, intimidation - do you allow small mindedness to grow unopposed?

I think i said i don't know how to make the world a better place, i just don't know that we're doing anything to make things nice. Or what we can do, or what is appropriate to do...

I mean i don't know how to best stand up for what you believe in, (though gay pride marches are probably a good start - at least they're more likely to have the desired effect than marching on washington to curb budget cuts...)
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
01 Dec 10 UTC
It's all very well and good to talk about how segregation is slowing the pace of acceptance, but when I log of this forum, I'm not going to get beaten up because I'm a "faggot." I'm not going to get kicked out the military because I came out of the closet. I'm not going to get death threats because I want to be married.

Places like this are important because they allow people to be who they are without criticism. I'm not saying it's the perfect solution and I'm not saying we shouldn't try to do better, but for us (me at least) this isn't a battle that I have to wage 24/7. For some people it is and it's not reasonable to expect that of anyone.
Mafialligator (239 D)
01 Dec 10 UTC
Well, then I think things are changing in a sense. I mean, it used to be that gay people really did have to limit their social lives to the village. Now, at least in my own experience, a lot of LGBT people have lives well outside the village and only occasionally take forays into it, for fun. (Of course my own personal experience should not be taken as representative of anything. And further even if my own experience turns out to be fairly representative of LGBT people within my particular city, I am speaking about a city not in the US also, in a place where religion has for quite some time, actually had relatively little to do with forming social norms. So it is an exceptional case. Your mileage may vary.)
I think increasingly though we are seeing LGBT lifestyles becoming more acceptable in mainstream society, and I think people are willing to push those boundaries, if that's what you're concerned about. There's still a long way to go, but I think the process you're worried isn't happening, is happening. It just takes time.
fiedler (1293 D)
01 Dec 10 UTC
there's such a thing as a gay bookstore??? LOLZ i need to get out more...or not
fiedler (1293 D)
01 Dec 10 UTC
@orathaic: you sure like to tilt at windmills huh? your intolerance of intolerance I find almost intolerable! :^)
orathaic (1009 D(B))
01 Dec 10 UTC
@fiedlet: I have no intolerance of intolerance, I'm intolerant of intolerance towards intolerance... the PC world of not allowing any objectionable view be heard is, in my mind, in theory at least, contrary to people working out their differences.

Or working toward any kind of compromise or acceptance of their differences. (it doesn't matter if you don't like what they have to say (READ:preach) or do (READ:sin), it matters that you accept they have the right to...

If you are allowed preach gay pride/religious intolerance WHILE accepting others will not share your views, then that is fine by me.

But yes, tilting at windmills, I am however not fighting these imaginery enemies, i'm just discussing whether they are imaginery or if my point of view has any merit...
Axe Murderer (315 D)
01 Dec 10 UTC
http://vimeo.com/4983786 I live near this place... Very strange. I have no problem with gay people, but Provincetown is insane. There's like drag queens everywhere.
Axe Murderer (315 D)
01 Dec 10 UTC
The school district in that town had like 1 kid enrolled in 6th grade back when I was in 10th grade.
fiedler (1293 D)
01 Dec 10 UTC
@Ora: " I'm intolerant of intolerance towards intolerance.." - so that means you are pro-intolerance?.... I've gone cross-eyed ;^)
Thucydides (864 D(B))
01 Dec 10 UTC
^ dog.... change your name
Thucydides (864 D(B))
01 Dec 10 UTC
that was directed at "Axe Murderer"
Axe Murderer (315 D)
01 Dec 10 UTC
Lol, it really is a creepy name, I'm not sure I like it anymore...
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
01 Dec 10 UTC
heh Not as bad as "Puppy Kicker" : )
Axe Murderer (315 D)
01 Dec 10 UTC
I always think its funny when I win a game and it says Game Won by Axe Murderer
Chrispminis (916 D)
02 Dec 10 UTC
orathaic, I get what you mean. I take issue with political correctness and hate speech laws because I feel all ideas should be open market, including the stupid, malicious, and dangerous ones. To me, banning discriminatory or inflammatory speech almost suggests that arguments for equality and equity cannot stand on their own merits and the force of the government must be brought in to skew the playing field.

That said, while you might be right that these segregated communities might not be conducive to a fully integrated society, they are more a symptom than an actual pathology. I still fully support freedom to associate with whomever you choose, and I believe that the existence of communities, for the most part, is less because they've been banished to that area by discrimination but more because of a natural inclination to associate with similar people.
Mafialligator (239 D)
02 Dec 10 UTC
@ Chrispminis and Orathaic. I do understand your concerns with hate speech laws and stuff, but I think your opposition, which is well intentioned and even well reasoned, is perhaps a little idealistic. The concern isn't that arguments for fairness and equality can't stand on their own, the problem is that deeply ingrained prejudices and social norms don't respond or yield to reasonable arguments about equality. In spite of legal breakthroughs in terms of equality, it's still not especially difficult to incite people to commit violent acts against members of the LGBT community, and no amount of reasoned argument is going to change that.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
02 Dec 10 UTC
@Mafialligator: I have to hope you are wrong - i don't expect reasoned argument is going to change anythign today, but i'm thinking in a generation what kind of society do we want to have?

I don't know how we will move forward, and my 'opposition' is just an idea, i don't have a strong opinion on how we *should* move forward because i haven't reasoned it out yet, I'm just picking out an idea and trying to explore it...
Sicarius (673 D)
03 Dec 10 UTC
Gay bars exist because every other bar is a straight bar, in fact not in name. Thats the same reason theres black motorcycle clubs and latino chess clubs etc. I am neither white or straight, and let me tell you, the whole of mainstream society is straight and white. (and male usually too)

omgwhathappened (0 D)
03 Dec 10 UTC
it's a common fallacy to presume that we're all all rational actors in a fair market, but that's simply not the case. slowly but surely our society is becoming more open and accepting of viewpoints and cultures different from our own. hate speech laws are a crutch until the time when there aren't people who honestly believe that blacks are inferior and that jews don't believe in god. if you think we've made it then you need to come on down here to the south and i can introduce you around to some people who call the president a nigger.
the.dibster (100 D)
03 Dec 10 UTC
I believe homosexuality is morally wrong. Importantly though, I am strongly opposed to the bigots who feel like making fun of gay people, make awful remarks, and treat gays terribly and with a phobia. If someone is gay that's fine, I don't treat gays any different, and they have a right to act how they want. However, for the good of everyone involved gay marriages and civil unions should absolutely not be allowed.
Sicarius (673 D)
03 Dec 10 UTC
Right because if those homos didnt want to be sinfull they could just stop choosing to like cock.

When did you decide you were straight by the way?
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
03 Dec 10 UTC
Please reread what you wrote here:

"I don't treat gays any different, and they have a right to act how they want. However, for the good of everyone involved gay marriages and civil unions should absolutely not be allowed."
orathaic (1009 D(B))
03 Dec 10 UTC
Civil union is an affront to equality, marriage as a legal contract does several things.

IF one of the fundamental aims of marriage laws (as opposed to the religious ceremonies) is to encourage a stable society with family units to raise children then it can be asusmed that infertile couples should not be allowed marry.

If infertile couples should be allowed raise adopted children then this 'funciton' of marriage is retained.

All the scientific studies i have seen indicate that gay couples are equally good at being parents. There is no reason i can think of to stop gay couples (who are legally married) from adopting children.

IF the goal is to encourage a stable society with family units to raise children.

FYI: you can point to the hundreds of bad families who raise terrible children, abuse and neglect their children.

Allowing anyone breed is not ideal, however regulating breeding is not a freedom which any population will stand for/support.

Adoption is much easier to regulate, so i think on average children adopted by a gay couple will do better than 'natural' born children.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
03 Dec 10 UTC
orathaic +1
orathaic (1009 D(B))
03 Dec 10 UTC
@the.dilbster:

Everyone sins, not everyone acknowledges that gambling (say) is a sin. (are there bible quotations that back up this point of view?) Do you see gamblers treated with the same phobia?

What's the difference?
Mafialligator (239 D)
03 Dec 10 UTC
@ the.dibster - "However, for the good of everyone involved gay marriages and civil unions should absolutely not be allowed." Who the hell are you to decide what's best for 'everyone involved'?

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54 replies
Malleus (2719 D)
03 Dec 10 UTC
Sitter etiquette
I need to get a sitter, but I've never gotten one before. What's the etiquette on that? I was thinking of going through old games and finding people that I got along well with. Is that the best bet for finding someone?
11 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
03 Dec 10 UTC
Happy Holidays! (And WHat I DON'T Like To See...)
Happy Channukah! (a day late...) ;) And Christmas to come...but controversy--DOES Santa Claus really exist? Oh, and then there's the matter of idiots who, instead of having a good, civil conversation (like we often have here) just decide to do the real-world equivalent of shout and troll... http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20101202/ts_yblog_thelookout/atheists-slick-ad-campaigns-sometimes-meet-with-resistance So let's talk here...what do you think?
18 replies
Open
JetJaguar (820 D)
02 Dec 10 UTC
Russia 2018, Qatar 2022
Anyone else have their opinion of FIFA's leadership sink to never before imagined lows today?
110 replies
Open
Dan Wang (1194 D)
03 Dec 10 UTC
What are public-messaging-only games like?
In your experience, do players in public-messaging-only games choose to ally and coordinate in full view of the other players, or is it more like a gunboat game but with the ability to negotiate draws amongst opposing factions, etc? Or somewhere in between?
11 replies
Open
airborne (154 D)
04 Dec 10 UTC
Oh Civ how lowly you have fallen!
Civ V may be one of the biggest disappointment in my gaming career. No more religions! No more multible leaders! No more +/- numbers dip-o! No stable gameplay! No more crazy number of civs! On and on...and I thought Black Ops needs a couple patches, gees
18 replies
Open
Indybroughton (3407 D(G))
03 Dec 10 UTC
GhostRatings - Take the Pledge...
...take the challenge.

I challenge every one of the top 100, as well as any player who moves up 20 spots or more, to pledge to contribute $5 via PayPal to this website. Sign your name to this thread to pledge! I'll start: INDYBROUGHTON
18 replies
Open
pathannarris (599 D)
04 Dec 10 UTC
World Game needs players
Anyone interested in playing a semi slow world game? We need two more players in the next 15 minutes. It is called:

Conquer the World!
1 reply
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
02 Dec 10 UTC
car free cities?
see sometimes i'm a little crazy...

This got me thinking : http://www.oecd.org/document/46/0,3343,en_21571361_44315115_46566894_1_1_1_1,00.html
28 replies
Open
jonK99 (133 D)
04 Dec 10 UTC
Who is up for a 5 min. game?
Who is up for a 5 min. game?
2 replies
Open
trip (696 D(B))
03 Dec 10 UTC
Is there a Mod in the house?
Help
5 replies
Open
superchunk (4890 D)
02 Dec 10 UTC
Various script errors in game recently causing inability to set full moves.
Any idea what is causing this as its preventing the setting of convoys, at least for me?
12 replies
Open
cannonfodder5 (100 D)
01 Dec 10 UTC
North Sea action
Which power has the longest staying power (pardon the repetition) in the North Sea corridor? Does France see itself in the mix?
23 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
02 Dec 10 UTC
Rank the diplo territories in order of importance.
You get one vote per post, and one post per page.
29 replies
Open
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