It is quite insane to compare Dalai lama to osama bin laden, yes both are religious leaders, one leads millions of Tibetan Buddhists in a non violent resistance to Chinese Han control of his homeland. Osama bin laden led, funded, trained and organized a dedicated suicide special ops team to perform violent acts within a foreign country.

China = capitalism
Europe = socialism

you think europes not capitalist?

I think you got that the wrong way round, ufcio...
China = Socialism
Europe = Capitalism

It is sad that "Chinese people" can be hurt by the fact that any two persons have met and talked.
Maybe Chinese president should actually meet Dalai Lama and talk to him?
Maybe next US president will start actually talking to Ahmadinejad, and why not, Bin Laden. They may actually tell him how they feel and what they want :)

well bin laden has said what he wants, he wants israel to not exist anymore he wants american bases in saudi arabia removed and the western saudi government removed, he said this after 9 -11 its why al queda attacked america, it had nothing to do with they hate our "freedom" or whatever else rubbish was givern as a reason.

But we don't negotiate with terrorists.


Unless it's the IRA...

Or the PLO...

Nelson Mandela terrorism is hardly comparable to Osama bin Laden terrorism. Haven't you read through Mandela's "An ideal for which I'm prepared to die" speech? I think it justifies the actions of both him and his organization. He also didn't murder 2000+ people.

Beyond that Nelson Mandela spent years (Wasn't it about 30?) in prison for his crimes, its much more acceptable to talk with someone who has at least answered for their actions than someone who murdered 2000 people and then went into hiding.

His 'cause' was also against racism and for democracy. Both ideals that are respected throughout the world. Islamic fundamentalism to the point where a 'convert or die' mentality rises on the other hand, is not.

Concerning the Dalai Lama, he's not a terrorist. He does have political motives in most of his actions but he is in no way comparable to bin Laden. Especially in meeting with him. Its fair for China to see him as a political threat and to condemn foreign leaders meeting with him but its not like China choosing to meet with Osama bin Laden.

Nobody mentioned Mandela... I was talking about the Irish Republican Army (IRA) and the Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO).

you forgot the mujahadeen and bin laden

"Maybe next US president will start actually talking to Ahmadinejad, and why not, Bin Laden. They may actually tell him how they feel and what they want"

Denzel73, are you insane? Read up on your history. This war has been going on since the crusades. After the US became its own country, Muslim pirates attacked US ships (starting in 1784) to enslave the crew, steal the ship and its cargo. In 1786, Thomas Jefferson met with one of their diplomats, and this is how Jefferson reported the response he received to Congress:

"It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise."

For years American sailors were slaves in Muslim lands, and we had done nothing to them. There was no provocation other than we were non-Muslim.

They didn't stop raiding American ships until we fought two wars with them in 1801 and 1815. If you've ever heard a Marine unit singing their hymn, thats what "from the halls of Montezuma to ---the shores of Tripoli---" comes from. We invaded Tripoli, a major source of the Muslim pirates.

We don't need to talk to the extremists to find out what they want. They declared war on us over 200 years ago. There isn't much to discuss.

"We don't need to talk to the extremists to find out what they want. They declared war on us over 200 years ago. There isn't much to discuss" how about a way to bring about peace?isnt the smallest chance of that worth talking about.

Im also going to ignore all your comments about muslim pirates as they were pirates they steal things doesnt matter about religion, its this kind of bullshit xenophobic spouting that has caused the world to be like it is.

If you can convince the terrorists that they can live in peace with us, more power to you. They'd likely just capture you, torture you, saw your head off, and display it on worldwide TV.

Feel free to blind yourself. You're right, they were pirates, they stole things. But pirates in the traditional sense didn't enslave the sailors of the ships they captured. The American sailors captured were put to work building port fortifications for the pirate havens. The only reason the religion matters is because they have made it matter. You should read the Quran for yourself. I have.

So... you think all of what I have to say is "bullshit xenophobic spouting" ? Muslim extremists, during the month of November, performed 191 terror attacks in 16 countries against 5 religions, killing 857 innocent people.

Do your research. It isn't bullshit, it isn't xenophobic. I have Muslim friends. They're not extremists.

Marchosias, I can assure that Croatian schools teach their kids much more about world history than American do, and that I actually know a lot about US history, while you probably can't find Croatia on the map... (look at Diplomacy map, it's where Trieste is ;)
Croatia was "antemuralis cristianitatem" (first wall of defense of Christianity) for 450 years, fighting the Turks, and yet, we don't hate them here. They fought for what they believed was right, we fought for what we believed...
Good thing Sarah Palin didn't get the chance to talk to Iranian president, we would have a chance to see how much nuclear fireworks can be made by two fundamentalists arguing :P

How many innocent civilians were killed during November by US troops worldwide?

You might be able to make the claim about the schools, Denzel, but you still seem unaware of current and past events. I like the personal jab, as though I don't know my global map. Very classy of you.

I don't hate Muslims. Or did you miss that? I have many Muslim friends. Funny how cosmopolitan California is. They're MORE vehemently against the extremist faction of their own religion.

But, what do I know? Here, have some Muslim holy text.

Sura (8:55) - Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve
Sura (9:30) - And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah... Allah (Himself) fights against them. How perverse are they!
Sura (8:12) - I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them
Sura (9:123) - O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness

I've got plenty more where those come from.

And before either of you go all batshit again, try and remember... I'm not anti-Muslim. I'm anti-extremist. Which includes, by the way, those retarded leftists who bomb laboratories that do experiments on animals, and those retarded rightists who bomb abortion clinics.

And before you look at how many civilians were **accidentally** killed by US forces, you should look at how many -more- civilians were **purposely** killed by extremists.

Bible is also full of crap, I'm sure they quote it a lot in taliban forums...
I'm sorry for you being brainwashed, but there's obviously been a lot of money and energy invested in the brainwashing process.

@marchosias you d o know the american goverment sponsored this "islamic fundamentalists" during the 80s. And i do believe if the western nations left the middle east to its own devices there will be no more terriorist attacks in western soil.

Excellent! Another personal attack. You guys are scoring really high on the class meter.

I'm not Christian or Catholic, and I've promoted neither religion, nor have I said anything about the Bible being true, accurate, or better, or anything of the sort... In other words, your reference to it is way out of line and useless.

Besides, brainwashing is a cold war term, and completely out of date. If I've been "brainwashed" by anyone, its been my own doing, through my own research. You should try it. There's a lot of great, accurate information out there, if you can sift through all the crap that you've obviously allowed yourself to be spoon fed.

Fascinating how you managed to find so many one-sided info during your research ;)
I'm tired of this, bye.

Trim: Yes, I'm well aware of what my government has done through the years. That doesn't make it right. They do that crap without the people approving of it. Or did you miss that?

Don't be naive, trim. Leaving the middle east to its own devices would invite more terror attacks on western soil. Lets face it, why travel halfway around the world to kill westerners when you can hop in a car and use less than one tank of gas, and, look! There they are! Westerners to kill! As soon as we let the pressure off of Osama bin Hidin', he'll reestablish his training camps and set right back to work trying to kill more westerners.

I'm glad you made that point, by the way. The extremists aren't after Americans, nor only westerners; they're out to kill all non-Muslims. Its in the Quran.

Denzel: Fascinating how you've not managed to find any of my side's info during all your days spent... not... investigating whats going on.

On the West vs Islamic states conflict, it is valuable to watch "After Rome: Holy War and Conquest" By Boris Johnson, currently being shown on BBC 2

im not being naive.why do you think bin laden attack the world trade centre?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=13ucvDpm31o&feature=related

The first episode on YouTube

It was impossible to miss it... It is all over your state-propaganda... oh, pardon me, "independent media" :D

Trim... you need more reason than bin Hidin's own religious book? It says plenty in there for motivation. But here's bin Hidin's own words:

"On December 27, 2001, a second bin Laden video was released. In the video, he states, 'Terrorism against America deserves to be praised because it was a response to injustice, aimed at forcing America to stop its support for Israel, which kills our people,' " ... Taken from Wikipedia.

Denzel: You're right. The government owns the media. Except... its the Leftist half. All they've ever reported is the bodycount and negative stories. Not one of the major news outlets has covered the positive things that have been happening.

Needless to say, I don't take anything the media reports at face value. They're the masters of spin.

so his own words say nothing about religion yes?he said it was an attack on maerica for their support of israel?your so deluded its hilarious, the Koran is a peacefull book, extremists have just taken it out of context. I says that you cant know the time of your death i.e you cant be a suicide bomber!