hecks, I find it easier to believe in God than to believe that humanity will ever "work together to make life better for all of us, and solve the problems of war, hunger, and disease."

@5c: by your definition there are no athiests then? They can't exist. So I would propose that you abandon your definition of the term and use the one that everyone else agrees with. Because it doesn't further conversation to have your own definition of a word that no one else uses. An athiest doesn't believe on god. It's that simple. An agnostic is not a watered down athiest, it's someone who doesn't think you can know whether god exists.

@Kellin: "Feeding the poor, all that crap, is fine and dandy and it is a function of church outreaach. But ask *any* born-again Christian that believes in salvation through Christ and eternal Heaven (which by definition includes the Catholic Church): Would you rather be filled with food for 80 years and then spend an eternity in Hell? Or would you rather be poor on earth, and spend an eternity in Heaven?"

@Krellin: Sorry, I had no words to say to your Krellinous crap.

You's a' goin' doon the tube, freens.

Mr new Pope: Can you sort the situation in Northern Ireland? It would be appreciated by both north and south. Thanks in advance.

"the Catholic Church also controls a sovereign state"

A sovereign state measured in hectares and whose security forces are armed with halberds. The City State of the Vatican is distinct from the Holy See. As a sovereign nation, Vatican City is about as threatening as Vanuatu. The influence upon Catholic throughout the world through their clergy is more to the point. I'm not sure how Vatican City warrants the same public scrutiny as North Korea.

"The influence upon Catholic throughout the world through their clergy is more to the point. I'm not sure how Vatican City warrants the same public scrutiny as North Korea."
I think you've just answered your own question."

I doesn't fucking matter how threatening it is, the point is that as an institution is has legitimated special privileges that make it more public than other religions like say Baptists, who have no such privileges.

They get to have a secret bank cause of that shit - they are going to be publicly scrutinized.

It kind of blows my mind that in 2013 people are actually saying "hey you cant criticize the church its a religious organization" lol no way dude in 2013 i can criticize tom brady's throwing arm, you bet your ass i can criticize the pope's policies lol

i mean god damn they are at the UN.

As to the Pope's actual comments regarding atheists:

I think he is being very wise and doing what he has to do to keep Christianity and Catholicism alive and relevant in the long term future.

Everyone always knew the Church would adapt and survive as times changed, as they always have. This is a logical manifestation of those necessary changes.

In the world you adapt or die, and an organization with a billion members is unlikely to just roll over and die.

It's very smart to co-opt the atheist movement in the way that he is doing - very smart politics.

And beyond that, there's nothing wrong with it. Krellin seems to think the only legitimate reaction of the church to atheists is to denounce them. You know, like they've been doing the last 500 years. That's worked out great for them so far lol

I'm not sure you grasped the point. I'm not in any way saying that the RCC shouldn't be subject to scrutiny. I'm merely saying that being a sovereign state (which is really only a tiny part of the RCC in and of itself as far as I can tell) isn't the reason for that scrutiny. It is completely legitimate to compare Vatican City to Vanuatu because it certainly is no USA, UK, or PRK. The type of power exerted by these countries over their respective populaces is just not the same as that held by the RCC over its congregations. Vatican City may have a place on the world stage, but it simply isn't because of the might of that particular city state. It is because of the Holy See, a distinct entity with a separate official language and mission. Vatican City itself is really only the vestigial remains of the Papal States. There was a time when the pope was also an earthly king.

So yeah, no protestant church has the same privileges as the RCC with regard to worldly power. But still that probably has to do with the fact that nobody really did more to curb that wordly power than the protestants in the first place.