And at the same time, Austria and Italy set up a Lepanto.

It is common for Italy to attack Trieste nowadays, however ill-advised that may be in 01. So Vie -> Tri blocks that but also puts you in a position to get an army into Greece and Serbia in the fall. I don't see the issue with it.

I prefer Vie - Gal and Trieste hold or to Albania. That gives you the ability to support into Trieste or Greece in F01 as needed. I've played austria more in gunboats, though.

The last full press I played with Austria, I think I moved Trie-Alb and Vie-Tri because I had a deal with Russia against Turkey. And Italy moved to Tyrolia and Venice, which made that move awful...

Unless Italy is guaranteed to get really strong, I think people should recognize that attacking Austria early as Italy is just a gift to Russia or Turkey.

In most of the Dip games I see on here, Austria does A Vie-Gal.

If you attack Austria as Italy early, you better do it fast and deadly. If it is a protracted war, Turkey and Russia gain. If you can take most of Austria in a year, go for it.

1.) Any Austrian who expects a Russian player to respect a Gal DMZ is in for a world of disappointment. Why not stage a mutual bounce instead? It keeps Russia out of Gal and if you are allies, it will make the Other powers less aware of that.

2.) In my experience, an Italian attack tends to come through Tyr rather than Ven. If this is that case when moving Vie-Tri, Austria is suddenly looking rather sickly. He won't get Greece and he will have an two armies (three if Russia moves to Gal) bearing down on its home centers. The Hedgehog opening gives you a build and much, much better defensive options.

Stackelberg, those are some good examples.

Also, I have seen a good number of Vie-Gal openings not only in games with relatively experienced players.

Am I the only one who finds it very ironic that someone with a GR greater than 2,000 thinks he can say what the good openings are :P

Vie-Tri is my favorite opening with Austria. If Russia opens to Galicia, you have a 50-50 chance at getting the right center, and if Italy doesn't attack Austria, Austria can hold off a Juggernaut for quite a while. Go find a game where Italy moves into Trieste in 1901 and find the Austria that survives

if the move is not bounced, of course

I think I prefer to gamble on a friendly Italy and going for Greece. If it works, half the time you do really well and can beat Turkey (unless Italy stabs you), and the other half you get eliminated, which probably happens if Italy and Turkey both fight you anyway.

I perfer to gamble on a friendly Russia, perferably making sure England moves north. If I can, I convince Germany to bounce Russia in Sweden if he moves into Galicia :-)

oh, and i often couple the move to Trieste with a Italy bouncing me in Trieste that phase. When I tried that, I ended up in a three way CPA draw :-)

I usually leave trieste in place and bounce gal. I'm more comfortable with getting 1 build and ensuring I live a little longer. The problem is the most common opening on this site is Bud-Serb, Tri-Alb, and Vie-Gal. Since that opening happens probably 50% of the time many Italy players will gamble venice to trieste in S01. From there even if dislodged they get budapest and 2 builds.

also, in reply to jimmy's saying any Austria thinking Russia will respect a DMZ in Galicia will be disappointed, the hopes are much higher for Italy taking Trieste

odds not hopes

I might rethink my usual Tri-Alb opening... reading everyone here, Tri-Ven or Tri hold sounds most prudent.

I always do Tri-Alb. Never have I only had one build with Austria where I survived long

If you don't get Greece, Turkey will, since Italy is very unlikely to try for Greece until he is attacking Austria. The only way I can accept not moving to Albania is if you order Bud-Ser and Vie-Bud. If you don't, it will be a 50-50 with Turkey if TUrkey gets Serbia or Greeceee

well i should note, that i have never had a decent game with austria, lol.

In my last four games with Austria, I opened Vie->Bud and Bud->Ser four times, with two good draws, an elimination, and a victory. I'll take that. Vie->Bud means that a Galicia stab is possible, but it also puts you in a position to directly influence what happens in five SCs plus Galicia.

I agree with Fortress Door: Austria has to start fast. And, if both Italy and Russia are going to turn on you, you're totally screwed anyway, so go for fast growth.

There seems to definately be opening (&strategic) trends & fashions that come & go with time, there are ample examples of this regular phenomenon.

a map could be, let us say: Country, Opening _choice, and chronological years...

The Balkan Gambit is entirely dependent on a peaceful Italy. If you have a peaceful Italy, then you have no need to defend against him and should open to Galicia. There's no argument that can justify Budapest that can't justify Galicia: both can influence Romania if they succeed, and both effectively cannot if they fail. (Galicia cannot outright, but provides a 100% defense of Vienna and Budapest in the fall; Budapest still can, but Austria's higher priority becomes defense of Vienna and Budapest, which the Budapest variant does with only 50% success rate.)

And if you don't have a peaceful Italy, you don't half-ass expansion and defense with something like the Trieste variant that leaves you incredibly vulnerable to the strongest Italian attacks (via Tyrolia) as well as the only possible Russian attack. You get a grip on reality, recognize that you don't have the conditions for the Balkan Gambit, you play the Southern Hedgehog to defend against both Italy and Russia, and you roll from there.

I checked my games with Austria, and surprisingly, all the ones I did well I bounced Russia in Galicia.

In my experience you have to eliminate Turkey as Austria, because there is as good as no chance for an Austrian-Turkish alliance. So moving south is the thing to do.

In gunboats, without the benefit of diplomacy and any way to guage my opponents, I invariably open tri-alb, bud-ser vie-gal. I fel that if Italy attacks me, im dead either way, so I play my best moves assuming he's going to be friendly.

If he attacks, I throw everything at him and let Russia and Turkey eat me. If he doesnt, Im usually in for a good ggame.

N standard press, it can certainly switch up.

I dont claim to be a good austria, but that's how I do it.

Fair point, PE. I will have to think about that

but jimmy, ordering Vie-Tri is MUCH more useful than ordering it to Tyrolia and Bohemia, just sayin'

What do people think about opening to Rumania instead of Serbia? I can only ever recall going to Serbia myself, but it seems like Rumania is also likely to be free in S01. Sometimes rumania stays neutral until 1902 even.

Slow down everyone... I'm trying to write all of this down so the next time I play one of you in a non-anonymous game where you are Austria and I am either Russia, Italy or Turkey, I can determine what you're going to do. =P

@Stack - It's really hard to hold Rumania, Turkey will go for Serbia, and you will piss off Russia. Those are 3 reasons.

In that case, I always open to Tyrolia and Bohemia for the guaranteed attack on Munich no one ever suspects :p

@Mapu, yes I guess opening Rum is only a good idea if you have some reason to want to work with Turkey. Which usually ends in Austria getting stabbed before 1905.

Thanks for the variable there Stack. Now I need to take Germany's perspective into account.

I have to say it's nice to have a thread that's actually discussing the game.

the problem is Stack that there is no river leading to Munich, so you could only go into either Bohemia or Tyrolia

Skittles that is easy to say for a 20-50pt live game, ah 50:50 shot, I'll just suicide and walk away if it doesn't work out. But what about a tournament or high stakes game setting?

I will say if Italy attacks me, merry christmas russia and turkey, because I also throw everything at him.

haha oops! You know I have always thought Austria would be a much stronger country if the fleet in Trieste was an army instead.

I like the idea Flemgem posted a while ago in a game:

Is there a special order whereby one may build pre-fabricated fleets in Trieste and ship them in pieces by rail to Prussia for assembly and launching in the Baltic? Because that would really be handy.

Italy and austria should work together more as if they are one country, much like austria/germany do that already. I still believe Bud-Serb, Tri-Alb, and Vie-Gal is the best opening and aslong as italy is punished everytime for attacking, on a meta-game level this will teach italy that this is probably not the best plan. problem is that italy often get bored without that attack early on and lapeto's ect in gunboats is hard to pull off.

well, in gunboat, attacking Austira can be really smart. Espcially if you do it Bohemian Crusher style

I guess, like most things, it depends on your neighbors. In press games I feel like it's possible to get a pretty good read, most of the time, on what Russia and Italy are doing. It's especially nice if one can get, say, a German assurance (taking that for what you will) to bounce in Sweden should Russia violate the Galicia DMZ.

Key Lepanto with Austria grabbing Rum and Greece is my favorite opening, personally. It basically knocks Russia and Turkey out of the game if you can hold it together for two years.

Of course, this is assuming full press games