Yes. Come on, marestyle, what's the basis for your allegations?

Just look at the map history. And, also, if anyone could read the conversations, it would be verry clear. Just one question - is there a punishment for meta-gaming?

Btw, I'm gonna get my as* kicked in that game, I know, but just for future reference.

Another info: AlexMC and Outc4st are playing 7 maps together. Where can I report them?

Both have joined in a 2 month period this year.

I just want them checked - you can kick me of the map for all I care, but if they're doing that, they should be stopped or warned not to do that.

rhydon and AlexMc have joined on the same date.

I rest my case, your honor. ;-)

Btw, if this is not proof enough for them just to be CHECKED OUT, could anyone please tell me what is, so I don't bodder you guys on the forum anymore?

I realy can't see why you discuss this in a forum when there are private messages, emails and Mods that could turn this anonymous until true evidence is found.

No multi accounting I'm afraid, I started playing a while ago, introduced AlexMc to the game recently and started a few games with him so he can get used to it. Haven't joined any with him since then and don't intend to. As for Rhydon starting on the same day, thats just a coincidence in this rediculous consiracy marestyle and Ice Cold are starting.

Both the games involved in these threads will be finished soon. For the low bets involved I don't see the big deal, it's not like I am setting them up with bets of 100 to farm points.

Thats all I have to say, I wont post again. I think IP's have been pinged, but feel free to do it again, we are not multiaccounting.

I must add this isn't metagaming, as you can see from the definition posted in the other thread.

You are allied in all your games so, unintentional or not, marestyle has a point - for the other players in your games what you are doing is metagaming.

You didn't plan it that way, but I'd suggest maybe drawing these. You may feel you're not guilty, but what is happening is certainly not fair to others - and might not be so good for your reputation here also.

Also, how much points are involved is not important and rather poor argument. "I broke into the store, but the cash-register was empty" kind of thing :)

Outc4st - whether you agree to an alliance before the game begins or you just always ally becuase you are friends, you are metagaming. If you go into a game with a person intending to be their ally and show them the ropes, that is the definition of metagaming and you are scum for doing it.

Draugnar.... classy and original as always... let's here it what you'll come up with now :)

Marestyle, you should really just have emailed the moderators about this. Throwing around accusations at other players, when you can't prove anything, is very poor form.

It seems there may be some metagaming going on here, which is certainly to be frowned at, but I don't think there's a strong case to say that anyone involved is a multi. In any case, just to reiterate, please just email the mods about this sort of thing, in future.

so advice would be just to draw the games? I thought the point was to make alliances anyway? Fair enough, I have no objection drawing all my games I'm in with AlexMc as I'm getting pretty fed up with this anyway.

I do have to wonder though, if we were losing, and trying to be a distant alliance turkey/england for example was working against us, would people still be crying on the forums then?

Draugnar, I think people who can only insult others via the internet and never would have the balls to do it to their face are pathetic. I guess we both just think each other are scum.

Outc4st, if you are asking a question in earnest, I'll try to answer. Yes, the point is to make alliances. The point is to play each game as an individual unit, without letting outside factors affect it. The fact that you are friends with someone in real life should NOT influence whether you will ally with them. If it does, then its metagaming.

Thats not to say you can't play with friends, nor that you can't ally with friends. But if you go into every game with your friends with the concept that as a team you guys will win, its metagaming. You aren't scum for doing it, but it is blantantly unfair to anyone who is trying to play the game as it was intended here.

If you were automatic allies and LOSING, people probably wouldn't cry foul as much. Not for lack of knowledge, but certain things that happen within games cause people to investigate their opponents. If you were losing, people have less reason to suspect you of metagaming.

@Outc4st - come to Cincinnati OH. I'll insult your retarded "I'm not doing anything worng" metagaming ass to your face. Not a problem, dillweed.

I just find it funny when people on this site insult each other. How does it benefit you guys?

Draugnar, in all seriousness, if your 'episode' last month was due to the adjustment of your medications as you claim, I would really suggest you may wish to go back to your doctor. Your words are becoming more and more erratic with each passing day, not just citing this thread as an example. On the other hand, if this is just your true nature coming out again in the last few days, so be it.

@ Outcast - my suggestion to draw this game is based on:
1. There're only 4 of you left and if you all were experienced players this will be a 4-way draw 90+% of the time.
2. As you yourself pointed out, this is getting annoying for all parties involved, so why not settle it asap and move on.
3. Like it or not what you did is not ok. Imagine you join a game where the other 6 players are friends and prefer to ally among themselves. How would you feel?

My suggestion is practical, surely there're many other alternatives, your call.

Nah... Just me being a pain in the ass and having some fun. I do think Outc4st is scum for refusing to accept that what he admitted to is metagaming. But he can be scum. I already know I'm an asshole. Hell, Dennis Leary is one of my heroes, and he is a self-admitting asshole as well.

@StevenC - It's just plain fun to fuck with another person's mind.

Denis Leary is at least funny.

ok cheers guys, draw seems the easiest option. Wont be joining any more with AlexMc.

Feel free to join with him, just don't plan to ally with him unless the game circumstances dictate it. In other words, be prepared to crush him into oblivion if the game circumstances call for it.

@Dingle - true. And if I were funny, I'd go about making my living doing stand up, movies, and getting my own TV series. Thank God I'm a better developer than a comedian.

well the 2 games in question we have started as next door neighbours and the game circumstances have dictated it. We have been powerful allies both benefitting from each other. I thought this was the problem? Better just to stay out of games together. Draugnar lets hope you are a better developer than comedian otherwise you would be completely broke.

But this is a free site. :P

Then, so long as you didn't enter the games with the intent to ally, I rescind my statement of your scumishness. You aren't scum, just a victim of circumstances that allowed you to be allies with a good friend in consecutive games with him. Of course, it all resides in intent. If you said before the game "hey, if we are neighbors, lets be allies", that would be wrong. If you refuse to stab him because he was a friend, that would also be wrong. but as long as you were open to the possibilities... However, it is common courtesy if you are in a game with a friend that you announce it as such at the beginning of the game.

......

Even if you enter a game with an open mind with regards to a friend, I think you owe it to the other players to make clear your relationship. You may fight, you may ally, but when you ally there is a trust level that wouldn't exist between strangers. I don't think it's wrong, but should be disclosed.

Interesting you should say that. I trusted a friend recently and got stabbed hard. So when she was trusting me and I had recovered (we went back to being allies out of necessity), I stabbed her right back.

I agree that you should let it be known (hence the last part of my previous post) but never assume a friend won't stab you when they think it is an opportune moment for them.

@Outc4st: "I thought the point was to make alliances anyway?"

The point is to make alliances WITHIN each given game, NOT to make alliances with someone just because they are your friend in Real Life, outside the game, and then to keep faith in that alliance regardless of what happens in the game, simply because the person is your friend. We call that metagaming, and it is somewhat frowned upon.

@Draugnar: You don't help the situation by going around calling people "scum". This is only a fucking game. Try to behave in a reasonably hinged way, and people might get on with you better. I normally enjoy debating with you, and you often have some interesting points in discussions even if I don't agree with you. But just hurling abuse at newbies makes you look like a twat. Sorry, but there you are.

Was that a twit or a twat (of course, it could be a tweet). OK, Jamie, I'll try to be more level headed and have a little less "hot headed assholieness" about me.

Haha, I thought about it on his first game (the one mentioned in this thread) but thought that would be a pretty harsh lesson in the way this game works. Thought I should at least wait one game, otherwise This game in question would already be over

Draugnar actually calmed down after his 1st, no second, maybe third crazed rant and abuse hurling post.

@ Draugnar: "Was that a twit or a twat"

It was twat. It's a fairly mild swear word in use here in the UK. It roughly translates as "a woman's genitals". I'm too nice to call you a cunt.

Only joking ;)

You could have gone for a minor stab (one or two SCs, not decimating him) to show him that he needs to watch his back. they occassionally have newbie games and the School of War series running that would be good for him to participate in.

Oh, I know what a twat is. I called Dingle one (I think it was Dingle) once, but mine may or may not have been a typo for twit. <grin>

P.S. I can take as well as I give. Have no fear. Just don't ever say I cheat in game. That will get you hunted down and shot like a rabid dog. <evil grin>

I've been watching Series one of Torchwood on DVD, and I'll be damned if you Brits don't get away with a whole lot more swearing than we Yanks do. Hell, they bandy about 'fuck' like no tomorrow when things go tits-to-the-wall in the story line.

Dunno I just watch series 1-4 of "The Wire" quite a lot of swearing in that. I don't remember torchwood being on tv that late though.

Isn't a twat also a pregnant fish?

hahahaha!!! just found out its from an old norse word meaning cut, slit or forest clearing.

MAkes the modern slang that bit more wrong.

Maybe they have it unedited on DVD, cause I heard a most distinct "FUCK!" the other evening out of a couple of characters' mouths.

"its from an old norse word meaning cut, slit or forest clearing."

Quality!

OK

marestyle. We are not in 7 games together.

There have only been two games so far where we have been neighbors therefore obvious allies and they happen to be the games we are doing well in. Thus getting complaints. In the other games we are not neighbors and have to play as seperate entities making our own alliances. What happens when our boarders meet is another thing. It hasn't happened yet. I don't know what will happen.

Going into a game already deciding to be allies is a flawed plan as starting location is random.

Also I could never been certain that I could trust him. I know him too well. I know that the thought of backstabbing me would come into his mind and probably is still being entertained :D

@AlexMc, you are in 5 together and at least 3 have common borders (Austria/Russia, England/France, Germany/France), but provided you are both open-minded about it... I would, however, post a small notice in the public chat as a disclaimer in all five so people know.

Exactly, 5 not 7.

Sorry forgot about the Germany/France game. Such a long turn it's easy to forget it's even happening.

Rhydon here (I'm playing France). I basically spent the entire game being stabbed (unsuccessfully) by England (marestyle) every time I'd start to move south against Austria. (AlexMc). I fought him off two or three times? He wanted to wipe me out to secure England, I think.

Alas, as I bogged down and/or fought off England, Austria and Russia overran the east, so England set up a stalemate line in germany that could only be outflanked in France (and possible russian fleet builds in St. Pete). So the Austrians started barreling west en masse. I either cut a deal with him (to see England die) or got steamrolled-- and I'd never be around to see England finished off. So essentially I was presented with the choice of whom to die to. I'd rather be crushed by Austria than England, so I threw myself on Austria's mercy and opened the gates to England proper.

I figure if I survive, I've done quite well. I see no reason to draw the game before England dies (ah, sweet revenge) even though I get nothing out of it-- although I'll go along with it if that's what everyone else wants.

Oh, and I don't have a clue who Austria or Russia are (some friend of Austria's, apparently...) I'm not in any other games with either of them, as far as I know. I pick up a lot of standby games, just to keep things interesting for other players (and to keep my points down).

Didn't expect this to be a nation-wide witch hunt... :-)

Firstly, I would like to thank Dragunar, Jamie, Ivo Ivanov and Dingle for their constructive suggestions and observations. I know I went on and on about this meta-playing, boring the brains out of people, but I'm gratefull it's finally heard.

Secondly, the game I was refering to (the Iron curtain by name) is not of that importance in refferance to the amount of points in it (the pot is 149 ), but by the way it was played, and it was played, in a degree, rather unfairly. If Outc4st, AlexMc and rhydon want to draw, I would be very glad, but more importantly I wanted to warn others about their meta gaming. Frankly, I'm gonna get my as* kicked one way or another, but my point is proven and we can continue playing even to my defeat, for all I care.

Thirdly, I was very pleasantly surprised by the multitude of meanings of the word "twat". That maybe the most important thing posted - certainly more interesting thatn the metas on the aforementioned map. :-) I laughed my eyes out when I read the norse meaning... :-D

Thanx everyone for posting! I officialy close this tread, except if anyone wants to post stuff about the etymology of "twat" ;-)

SETTLE DOWN CHILDRENZ