As a so caleed liberal who is from the Deep South, I'd have to say that there was definitely a time when affirmative action was necessary to combat segregation. Within my lifetime, however, the playing field has changed significantly. I don't believe that the vast majority of problems facing ethnic minorities in the United States are the result of oppression by white people. The election of Barack Obama (YES!!!) is a clear example of how it is possible for a minority to rise to watever position they wish to based on the quality of their work. Affirmative action is outdated and unnecessary in the 21st century. The ONLY people I know who are in favor of it are minorities, and I honestly believe that it is out of self-interest rather than fairness.

"Doesn't it destroy the essential competetive edge of university applications? You basically end up with a large group of people who are not at the university's standard."

That's also assuming that a competitive edge in university applications is a good thing... Personally, I don't see why anyone who wants more education should be denied that opportunity, except that it's probably less pragmatic and money-wise. I have a few friends who slipped through the cracks of the competitive system despite being far smarter than many of the A students, simply because they weren't challenged in high school and so didn't care. I believe university would have been a far more conducive environment for their intellect, but their high school marks, which were hardly representative of their potential, made that impossible.

I agree that I think the main difference is poverty, a lot of which stems from historical injustices, and that currently you're more at disadvantage from being poor than you are of being an ethnic minority. Even with so-called "need blind" admission, more needs to be done, especially if affirmative action can be justified. I think aiming more efforts here would yield more effective results.

At the same time, however, there still is discrimination against ethnic minorities regardless of wealth. In fact, one might experience more discrimination amongst the wealthier circle because ethnic minorities are much rarer in the upper echelons. I don't think the disadvantages are nearly as significant as those of a poor upbringing, but should they not still be addressed somewhat?

Race should not be a factor of modern life.
"All men are created equal" --U.S. Declaration of Independance

While the ideas behind Affirmative Action are benevolent, it is rascist. Thus, I am against it.

El Perro- "Once again, working under the assumption that all white people are rich, and all non-white people are poor."

If we were just talking about money then affirmative action would be based on incomes. Thats what we call need based scholarships. This also applies to Pandasenics extreme example and people should help her as well, but in different ways.

What we are dealing with here is basic racism and a multitude of barriers that many people in minorities face. One of them is poverty. If you were rich and black you probably still don't have an easy time of it. Plus, you might argue that people who are poor and white had a chance at getting rich where the blacks have been kept down by, as ChrisP says, "historical injustices".

As for Chalmers' example saying that maybe once upon a time but not anymore. Maybe you are right, you are from the deep south and I'm not. From an outsiders perspective, I still see a problem, but your call. But I CAN tell you that its the third world on a native reserve and its not the twentieth century there at all.

People are entitled to equal rewards, regardless of race. However, if Affirmative Action was based on income, then it would still be bad. It's an indirect form of "spreading the wealth around", which, in a way, is economic communism.

affirmative action is racism