I personally love the Western Front

WT's are the single most boring alliance and are a great way to suck all enjoyment out of a game as you coast toward a 6 way draw at the expense of Austria or Turkey. Boring.

Honestly the alliances that happen in games are always the same.. It is really boring. It'd be nice to see a good Top of the World, or a Wintergreen, maybe even a Central Alliance..

But no.. Lepanto.. Juggernaut. WT (or some version of the duo alliance). :(

I really enjoy I/T. The board rarely sees it, and most can't stop it if it gets going.

Sounds like you're playing in some low quality games if every game has the same alliances, Scmoo.

An AR is pretty scary too.. My very first FTF game in high school I steam rolled a Turkey as Austria in an AR.. I managed to get Russia into BS Spring 01, and I went to Rum with my army, and we pulled a convoy of my army into Ankara for Autumn 01. :D Dumbest, but funniest thing ever. Also, Italy was very gullible. =P

The worst games are the ones in which the WT, Jugg, and Lepanto all form..... its quite terrible. because the WT makes huge gains quickly before the jugg and lepanto can agree to some armistice and normally by then it is just too late.

(Standard) Lepanto takes the biscuit for second most boring alliance after a WT, though it's lower because it doesn't ruin the entire game, just the eastern half of the board. Juggernauts aren't so joy-sucking, at least when they're done by capable players rather than people who make them patently obvious from spring 1901.

Juggernauts are joy sucking because every Russia/Turkey opens wanting to be friends. I welcome any chance I can get to run an AT or a TI, because it is different and makes me think differently. AT is pretty awesome if you get two people who are willing to run it.

You really need to play some higher quality games, Scmoo.

The CPA is an awesome alliance and one of my personal favorites.

I agree with HR, the jugg I think is actually underutilized here, because stabs happen so fast.

I imagine the fact that I play mostly live games has something to do with it. Alliances where communication and a lot of diplomacy involvement are rarer.. and easier alliances, Jugg/WT, are far more prevalent.

I had never heard of the WT until they talked about it on an episode of diplomacycast that I recently listened to. I guess it's more of a F2F thing because I've never been involved in one or asked to be involved in one and I've played a decent number of games.

I actually think WTs are rarer here than elsewhere because you can't send messages to more than one player at once. In my experience, WTs are great if you're England or Turkey and terrible if you're anybody else, as England just rides it until they get stuck, and then stabs France and Germany, while Turkey organizes everybody to stop the WT, then stabs everybody else when England stabs France and Germany.

As for those other alliances . . . for some reason, I rarely play Jugs as either Russia or Turkey. I like AT from both sides, and I haven't played Russia in press in a while, but I think the last time I soloed in 1906 by allying with Austria (and then stabbing him, and then backing out, and then stabbing him again . . .). The only other good player on that map was Turkey, and he made the mistake of not covering Black Sea in spring 1901.

My understanding is that the Jugg doesn't actually work as both players can stab the other (with whoever got less stalled or being more skilled coming out on top), UNLESS a WT forms and then they have to *actually* work together past 1904. I laugh every-time the board screams about the Jugg. Otherwise I agree with everyone.

Most alliances have players who can both stab the other. If you're not taking risks in an alliance, then you're not maximising opportunities.

You just have to know when the next risk is a risk too far.

In my experience, an alliance only works if both players can be stabbed or one player is really bad.

My dislike of the WT as a starter is that you are playing from the draw from the get go. It's just boring.

On the other hand, any moves where Turkey and Russia don't immediately fight gets shouts of "Jugg", and I can't remember the last time I saw a successful one

My personal favorite is "The Ultimate", it's a quiet sneaky alliance since everyone expects France and Italy to dmz something at the beginning of the game anyway. You don't really even have to overtly help each other that much at the beginning. The massive safe zone at your back it bonus enough.

France helping Italy into Munich in Aut 01, with the army having backfilled into Tyrolia from Venice, it sets up Italy for 5 builds with 3 armies and 2 fleets that can easily turn into an Austrian roll over.

The care bear game was a WT