The issue is 2-fold:

1) We don't have enough active devs (although vDip does a great job).
2) Kestas is too busy to actively port changes to the main site.

The only way this will change is if kestas has more time or if he's willing to let someone else touch the code on the main site.

I can tell you from extensive experience as a software engineer that after a while you get tired of updating things, your interest changes to other projects, you lose your initial enthusiasm, etc. Especially once it's all working well and you're not making any money off of it. I can empathize with him if any of these things are true for him and I'd bet they are.

I know this is a free site,and most want to piggy back that, and thats fine...but if the possibility is there to make some changes, i bet we could find a way to raise some capital to hire code writers if Kestas doesn't want to take the time, and implement some changes based on a vote by the community,of what changes should have the highest priority. And then what ever dollars are raised, would go to fund however much coding we could afford

i understand that he doesn't make money, and thats all well and fine, but he takes donations!! So, i also understand the time issue, but if there is enough sentiment to make change, then maybe, once a year,or every other year, try to appease the community

Out of curiosity, are there particular changes you'd like implemented?

I have my thoughts, but I think that if something could actually get done then a vote by the community on priority should be the fairest way. I've seen several good ideas get floated and offered a few myself, but we are a community and as such we should open it to a vote.

It seems like the predominate theme though is early CD and what should or should not happen This effects not just live games but all. Have a pre ready button so all know the games are starting would be a great solution to both live and longer term games. If everyone doesn't ready the the ges goes back to look for other players or get cxl.

In regards to CD, I don't think that will be an issue much longer.

Kestas has partially integrated RR. Once it's accurate and integrated into games, we'll be able to select a minimum RR of players we want to play with. That should pretty much eliminate the CD issue.

The donations Kestas takes goes to funding the sites hosting. We have dedicated server and bandwidth that we used to not have. As a result, the site runs much smoother than in the past, but that costs $$$.

How will RR help me to keep Cding players out of anonymous live games?

You set a minimum RR for the game, and/or a minimum number of phases played.

Hm, will believe it when i see it.

I'm not sure the RR will help the CD problem totally. It's partly because people get that so called shitty country and just not play, but I think that's a small part. I think it's more like , people sign up for games and something else comes up and they walk away from computer. Remember it very prevalent in live games but it happens all the time in long term games because people sign up and forget.

People who's RR gets bad enough will not be able to join new games once Kestas is finished testing out the date (it's not 100% accurate yet). They will have to take over CD positions or explain to the mods why they have such a poor rating.

What I'm talking about though is more than just the cd problem. We as a community think there are things that would enhance the site as a whole. I had said that I understand that this is a free site that kestas graciously puts out, and I am grateful for that...but he does accept donations....and as Draug has pointed out , these are to help with the server costs,but donations are what they are, a revenue source. It would seem to me thy as much as Kestas appreciates these donations he does not NEED them, otherwise there would be a fee for the site. So why not try to raise some money and hire a developer that can help to get some of the changes that the community wants.

@ssorenn

Money is not the issue. Even if we paid a Dev, the bottleneck would still be kestas implementing the code to the site. If kestas was willing to let other people implement features, we wouldn't even need to pay a Dev. There are plenty of volunteers who would do it for free.

Yeah, there's no need to hire anyone.

I have a question- how does vDip run all of the other features there (like the reliability rating)? Do they have more servers or money available, or is it that because there are less users they can use the processing power for other things?

WebDiplomacy is open source. Kestas is the original creator but anyone can use the code and add things to it. Oli and others over at VDip are just more active when it comes to development.

The ultimate solution would be for everyone to play on vdip with the webdip forum running in an optional iframe.

the optimal solution would be an open ID system to handle logins, so you'd have one account login which connected to both vdip and webdip... (or any other forks)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenID

That seems like a large infrastructure change for questionable benefit

@jmo: are you (or Kestas I guess) aware that currently the system gives a CD to people who are in games that are force-cancelled by the mods? I have 61 CDs on my record but I'm pretty sure I've actually had less than 20.

Wait, is that true? That seems like a bit of a fuck up, if it is. I hope RR is not fully implemented until that's resolved...

I've been in games force-canceled by the mods and I still show 0 CDs, so pretty sure that is not the case.

Hmm. Whaat'chu talkin' 'bout, Chaqa?

I went through an counter my CDs and it's nowhere near 61.

You may have counted the games that ended with you in CD, but you can CD multiple times in a game and have someone else take over your CD such that you couldn't count those, but the computer can by going through the turn results records and flagging every "X has gone into Civil Disorder" record it finds.

I have two CDs despite having never missed a turn (I think) and certainly never going into civil disorder; they're from switching around during the Leagues I think. The numbers for RR aren't right yet, which I think we talked about back when it first became available on Webdip.

@Draug: I heard the mod-forced-cancels-causes-CD thing from one of the other mods (2WL I think), but I wasn't aware if it was common knowledge.

A mod forcing someone into CD records a CD on someone's record. There are still some inaccuracies with the data. For example, if someone CD's and the game ends in a win it doesn't always record the result as a CD, just a survived, etc. Kestas is away for the month, and won't be looking into these for a couple of weeks. That's why there are no options attached to RR yet, and no penalties for a negative one.

What about when a mod force-cancels a game? That was what I heard and it would explain the number of CDs on my record, I've had a TON of games cancelled due to cheaters.

I've had plenty cancelled due to cheats yet my count is 6. All of mine are from being forced into CD by a mod. I think you heard wrong.

So,

What are the odds of Oli jumping on here and making some of the changes that we have on Vdip. I would have to say it's one of the main reasons I like Vdip that much more. I like Webdip because of the ghost rankings and much more lively forum chat.

No chance. Oli owns vdip. Kestas owns webdip. Oli has no rights to the server. You seem to think the two are in some relationship, but they are more akin to cousins or friends than siblings or wedlock.

Well, it was worth a shot ya know..

Very small Sandgoose, Oli is pretty busy these days. He has the time for some vDip dev work, but that's about it. Now the odds of me

1) getting server access
2) getting access to Oli's code
3) altering it for webdip with both Oli's and Kestas help
4) getting Kestas to add it on/getting kestas permission to add it on myself

are better, since 1 and 2 are done, and 3 is in progress, though I'm starting with some mod tools and mainly sql based till Kestas gets back. If the first few mod based ones run smoothly we'll see if we can't work out a way for people to work on code and give it to myself or kestas for review and implementation.

Obviously not my place to promise anything, but my goal is to eventually get to the point where we can take member contributions easily, only needing to test them out for security and functionality flaws before adding them to the site. My specialties are SQL and C#, so I may be looking for members skilled in pHp who are willing to help if Kestas is willing to consider a setup like this as my familiarity with it is limited to a few side projects.

wasn't sandgoose banned?

Yes. But he was recently allowed back. Didn't you hear? His ban has been lifted because he's turned over a new leaf.

Hadn't heard.

Boy are you behind the times, Czech.

Yea, say hello.

I know, Draug. I just upgraded to an Apple II E and things should be much faster now.

The first program I got paid to write in 1982 was in AppleBasic on a ][e. It too data from a Nicollete oscilloscope, graphed it on the ][e, then transferred up to a DEC PDP 11 for data analysis. I was 16 at the time. Talk about knowing what you were gonna do for a living.