Leave it to Putin to make a rule in one breath and break it in the next...

Biggio never led in a single offensive category. Zero MVP awards. A few gold gloves and played whole second half of career without being an all-star. Jack Morris won 20 games only 3 times in an 18 year career. He had one monster year in 1983. Everything else was pretty pedestrian.

Leave it to a Reds fan to put his team above the game of baseball.

You declared the rule. You declared Rose broke the rules so has to pay. Well your rule of what the price to be paid is puts him on HOF.

While we can agree that Morris is a marginal hall of famer at best, you aren't seriously judging his merit by wins, are you?

Edgar Martinez was a hall of fame player, and people are ignoring him because he played DH. I guarantee you that if he had played 1B on an NL team (or even DHed for an AL East team, fuck East Coast bias), he would have been inducted already.

Pete Rose doesn't deserve a spot in the hall of fame because he cheated, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't a great player that deserved recognition. It also doesn't mean that he bet against his team or threw games. You'll notice that his team did quite well.

Edgar Martinez deserves the induction as much as anyone. Not only did he play like a Hall of Famer, but he made the DH position a valuable position and started the argument for actually using it throughout baseball.

Pete Rose deserves a spot in the Hall of Fame because he played like one of the top 10 hitters in baseball history throughout his career. He became a manager and bet on his team to win - in other words, he tried even harder to make them win - and I see no issue with that at all. That's side money; what's so bad if it doesn't affect the game? Steroids affect the game and betting against your team affects the game, but not betting for your team.

So ghug, what about Bonds and the rest of the 'roiders? They cheated and their cheating actually significantly altered the game and gave it a bigger black eye than one man's betting on his team. At least all of Rose's accomplishments are "enhancement free".

Jeff Bagwell was better than Martinez and Biggio. He gets my 4th vote.

If Bonds isn't in the Hall I will donate for a Hall of Greater Fame to put Bonds in.

Designated hitters are not baseball players. Being a DH boosts your stats, and is a position they give to washed up guys who got injured and can't play anymore. Which fits the description of Martinez perfectly. Martinez is not even close to being in the 3,000 club, which is saying something when you consider his only claim to being in the Hall is that he hit.

"
you aren't seriously judging his merit by wins, are you? "

No, if you recall I said his stats overall are nothing special. I just singled out his lack of wins.

" I guarantee you that if he had played 1B on an NL team "

Right, like Dick Allen. Oh wait. And unlike Edgar, he actually won an MVP award.

"Designated hitters are not baseball players."

LLLLLOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLL

Juicers aren't baseball players. The damage the juicers did to the game should have them all banned for life. They sulloed the reputation of the sport almost as badly as the Black Sox and basically made the reford books meaningless. They took away Lance Armstrong's titles for juicing and banned him from.cycling and they should do the same to Bonds and the other MLB juicers.

Lance Armstrong juiced his entire career, and forced his team to juice. And paid off the rules enforcers to look the other way. Bonds was a HOFer without juice.

@Putin - Did he? Lance I mean. Nothing was ever proven and, in fact, the ICU just appointed a panel to investigate it.

The panel is investigating Lance's ties/pay offs to the ICU. The ICU came out and condemned Lance. What do you mean nothing was ever proven? Did you read USADA's voluminous report? It documents his cheating year-by-year. There was not a single Tour he won where he wasn't cheating. There are droves of witnesses. Every single teammate of his. Including his closest teammates whom he trained with exclusively. There are tests demonstrating blood doping in 2008 & 2009. There is the positive for EPO that got a doctor's "note" for "saddle sores" after the fact in 1999.

I love how Putin decries the media and government as biased when it doesn't suit his needs yet promotes their findings as evidence when it backs what he says. These "witnesses"... Were the ever put under oath in an actual court of law? How much were they paid to come forward? There are two *inconclusive* tests from 08 & 09. And doctor's often write notes "after the fact". I have one written by my doctor prescribing a medication I have been taking for weeks. It was written yesterday and faxed to the pharmacy so I could get a refill of some antibiotics he initially gave me a batch of in his office for a cellulitis infection in my left shin.

1-They would have been put under oath had Lance not backed out like a coward from contesting the allegations.
2 - How do you get suppressed blood cell counts without blood doping? Why do scientists claim he blood doped?
3 - Lance's masseuse claimed he tested positive but they made up the saddle sore story as a way out. Said masseuse would have administered any treatment to saddle sores if he had any and he did not.

Sorry the saddle sore story was not for EPO, but for some other banned substance. There are urine samples from the same year which tested positive for EPO, but they were done in 2005.