Only if they foolishly believe that neither Turkey nor Russia would attack them.

Even then it is a mistake, because Turkey and Russia will still prevent them from gaining a strong position.

(Though nothing other than tactics is ever quite that categorical in diplomacy)

Drugs. Lots of drugs.

I'm tossing my lot in with lum.

To stop Italy attacking them? An Italy without Venice will find an Austrian assault a hard thing indeed.
Also, coming into the Balkans 3rd Austria can find both Turkey & Russia bending over backwards to assist him against their foe.

I mean not in the first, say, 5-10 years lol.

"To stop Italy attacking them? An Italy without Venice will find an Austrian assault a hard thing indeed."

I suppose that's a fair point, and if Italy is making hostile noise, then it would be warranted. But if Italy is ostensibly friendly -- say, mid-Lepanto, left one unit in Venice, or better yet Venice is unoccupied because Italy is Lepantoing while attacking France -- and Russia and Turkey are bearing down... I just don't get it.

"Also, coming into the Balkans 3rd Austria can find both Turkey & Russia bending over backwards to assist him against their foe."

You'd think that would tip them off...

What do you mean? If you're the 3rd person in a disagreement you will always find the other two trying to persuade you to side with them (eg UK election!).

Attack? If you are referring to the Trieste-Venice bounce, that is pretty common but carries no more threat.

If you mean more than that, I would be interested in the actual moves as they would be extremely risky for Austria. You're not playing with El Smarty Jason are you?

the one time I tried a Lepanto I also got stabbed by Austria. It was reassuring to not see Austria do well overall... but the temptation for them to make a quick gain of an SC must simply be too great. I must remind myself from time to time that just because I would never do it (and think that it's a bad idea) doesn't mean that no one would ever do it.

Maybe Turkey (or Russia) convinced Italy they would stab Russia (or Turkey) at the same time Austria stabbed Italy, but was lying and Austria fell for it.

"What do you mean? If you're the 3rd person in a disagreement you will always find the other two trying to persuade you to side with them (eg UK election!)."

As a general principle, perhaps. But when you're Austria, and Russia and Turkey are both openly persuading you to attack Italy, you can reasonably be assured they aren't fighting (after all, according to your own principle, they should be getting Austria to side with them against the other). And if two relatively strong powers on your eastern flank are actively encouraging you to fight someone on your western flank who's been friendly to you the whole game... doesn't that tip you off at all?

"Attack? If you are referring to the Trieste-Venice bounce, that is pretty common but carries no more threat."

Oh, no no. In fact, I do that virtually every time. I'm aware it's not a threat.

It's more like... let's see. http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=31253

I opened with Obrieni and told Austria to bounce in Tyrolia. The idea was that I would be able to throw off Russia/Turkey (who I found out were forming a Juggernaut within the first couple of game years), and still be in the same Lepanto position by S1902. I even explained openly to Austria what I was doing, and he stood me off... then proceeded to attack me, saying that "me [himself] Russia and Turkey are gonna come down on you hard." Needless to say, the Juggernaut rolled and Russia eventually won.

There was another one on Facebook where I Lepantoed and sent the spare army to Piedmont to harass a France being invaded by Germany and England. That game is ongoing, but Turkey has eight centers, Austria two (two of my HSCs), and I'm hopelessly trying to grab Tunisia in an extremely predictable move to survive.

I just don't get it. Attacking Italy right away NEVER works as Austria. NEVER. It's "Turkey moving A Con somewhere besides Bulgaria in S1901" kinda never. And yet people do it. I just don't understand.

Well this obreini lad is obviously easily tricked and trustworthy, aka a perfect ally.

As austria the "perfect" move is being able to move trieste albania buda to serbia and either bounce or take galicia. It let's you get two centers. Unfortunately I never get to do it however when I do I almost always win or draw, just did earlier today in fact tho that game was weird

@PE: I didn't know RT were telling him to attack Italy - rather assumed Austria was at least holding his own as far as control goes and that to attack Italy was his decision.

I totally agree in gunboats though - how many times do you get screwed over as Austria by a suicidal Italy who's more interest in dragging you down with them than doing well in the long term!

Obrieni = Italian opener. Ven - Tyr, Rom - Ven, Nap - ION.

And I would hardly consider the Balkan Gambit a perfect move; it is when it works, of course, but that's more due to it being, well, a gambit. If Italy opens with the Obrieni and guesses right, he can get one of your SCs; if he opens to Trieste, he guarantees one. And if you attempt to bounce in Trieste, you're worse off; Russia moves to Galicia, giving him a 50/50 shot in the autumn as you contemplate how to keep another Trieste attack at bay, and if he uses Obrieni then you're really screwed. (Now you're GUARANTEED a loss, with a 50/50 shot of two; not even securing Greece gets a build if Russia guesses right, and your troops are scattered in Vienna/Budapest, Serbia, and Greece. Some bad.) Of course, you can send the fleet back to defend/recapture Trieste... but if that's the line of argument, what's the point in opening that way in the first place?

I much prefer the Southern Hedgehog: Ven - Tri, Vie - Gal, Bud - Ser. That stops most (I dare to say all) anti-Austrian Italy openings immediately, guarantees you a build and gives you a say over Greece and Rumania. You sacrifice guaranteeing Greece for yourself, but in exchange you are guaranteed a build thanks to Serbia, Italy and Russia are in poor positions to attack you, and if Italy and Turkey have their sights on Greece you just gave yourself the perfect chance to gain favor with either.

"I totally agree in gunboats though - how many times do you get screwed over as Austria by a suicidal Italy who's more interest in dragging you down with them than doing well in the long term!"

I find that usually people tell me when they don't want to be x country and they're just gonna go suicide on someone. I've actually redirected a suicidal country onto a belligerent rival before in a face-to-face game (one of the [few] crowning diplomatic achievements in my brief history in this game).

Unforutnatley playing LAGs you do rather open yourself up to people like that.