I think Spock would come ahead, since it's passion for revenge after a stab that leads to a lot of defeats.

But from the real captains it would be Picard or Sisko who wins. Both had to use diplomacy a whole bunch in their series while Kirk just fought or slept with the aliens. I suppose Janeway would be good too, but I haven't watched enough Voyager to make a good guess at her character.

Archer would be slaughtered. I hated that show, Enterprise.

*Jean-Luc Picard of the NCC-1701-D:
+DIPLOMATIC: Picard is easily the most diplomatic and maybe the best speaker of the seven (between him and Kirk.) Picard is very well-read and knows how to get what needs to be done through the power of speech and without firing a shot
+DELEGATOR: Picard knows the strengths and weaknesses of his crew, and knows who is needed for what. He is able to look past passions and fueds and anything else. Further, whereas Kirk can be your friend, he can often be like a big brother or father, giving advice to get you going.
-HANDS-OFF: Just as Kirk's bravery is a two-edged sword, so too is Picard's diplomatic approach. It's not that Picard's afraid to pull the trigger or fight- but he won't be getting into many bar fights for you

Wait 'til I post all the captains, then I'll post scores. At the end of the Night, 12:00 PT, we'll declare a winner.

So far, Spock leads all 1-0.

*Benjamin Sisko of Deep Space Nine:
+TACTICAL: Here's a man who spent much of his career fighting a war of his own. So, though most of the captains have been involved in some sort of conflict, Sisko has the most big-war experience.
+SPIRITUAL: He has a definite belief in higher powers, following Prophets and all. Sisko's probably not a religion-pusher, but can definitely infuse some rhetoric into an arguement.
-TEMPER: Sisko was responsible for a huge war- but at great cost. He saw a lot of friends die, and feels responsible. Of the Seven, he's probably the coldest, having, by the end, shut himself off to a certain extent, and he would probably have no real qualm stabbing an ally if he had a reason- and he'd probably do it more freqently.

*Kathryn Janeway of the USS Voyager NCC-74656:
+IMPROVISATIONAL: Janeway had her ship 70 years away from any help, and she had to constantly come up with new ideas and new approaches. Of the Seven, Janeway would do best with a cut off, siolated country (such as a jammed Italy.)
+MATERNAL: Never a marrier or huge lover, but she adored her crew, and really saw quite a few as her children, and they saw her likewise. Just as she could handle a small, isolated country, Janeway could also do well with a big country, like Russia, and be able to maintain power and an alliance.
-MECHANICAL: Janeway improvises, but she has one thig about her than rarely changes, even when improvising- she's a kind of person who connects the dots rather than paint a picture. She'll go though her motions before doing things, and as such, is less inspirational some important times than someone like Kirk or Picard or even Archer- if an alliance or plan start to falter and someone needs to say something to keep it from falling apart, Janeway's not the best choice.

*Jonathan Archer of the NX-01:
+COMMON: Archer's not the sort of captain who needs his chair or is concerned with ranks or formalities- he's a crewman's captain. Like Kirk, he'd have no problem putting of a not-that-important assignment to watch the game with you or be there with you when you learn it's a healthy baby boy.
+OPEN: Of the Seven, far and away Archer accepts advice more readily and with more enthusiasm than someone like Sisko. If he's in an alliance, ans someone makes a suggestion, regardless of how strong or weak he is relative to that person, he'll listen and respond to their idea.
-NAIVE: Like Kirk's bravery and Picard's way with words, Archer's openess is a fine line. He WAS the first captain chronologically, and so he believed and trusted far more and often too much as compared to the others. Of the Seven, Archer might be one of the easiest to keep an alliance with, but he would definitely be the easiest to stab.

*Spock of the NCC-1701 (for a fair number of outings)
+LOGICAL: Cliche, here, but true- Spock's sense of reason often prevails. Of the Seven, he and Sisko would most likely be the hardest to stab and have it be a secret; Sisko had experience, but Mr. Spock would most likely have seen any stabs coming a mile away.
+DISCIPLINE: If there's a huge crisis on the ship and Kirk's away, Spock totally takes charge. No matter the tension- warp core about to blow and Scotty's sweating to Russia and France bearing down on a Spock-controlled Germany- he won't break, and won't stop until a solution is found or he's out. Like Picard, he knows how to get the job done no matter who or what it takes. Of the Seven, the least likely to respond to a threat.
-CLOSED: Another case of a two-seded trait. When it comes to ideas, Spock usually thinks his are the best, or at least among them. Consequently, there's usually no or little debate with Spock when he's in command. Of the Seven, he'd probably be the most demanding and, would be percieved as, arrogant in an alliance.

My vote is for Spock. <_< He's just.... Spock. That's it.

I know you have to post Riker on here still, but should you also consider Sulu? Isn't he a captain by Undiscovered Country?

My vote is for Picard. He's as ready to fight as Kirk, but has the words to assure his friends and pacify his enemies. His dealings with Q make him ideal for seeing the big picture, as well as understanding quagmatic players.

Who the heck is Sisko.

Kirk would suicide bomb. He would be the first out.

Riker would be almost as bad as Kirk, but might not get elminated as fast because Picard could possibly have some sentimental alliances with him. He would get out second.

Archer would be very idealistic and have a hard time doing preemptive betrayals, so would probably be eliminated third.

Janeway would do well but probably have a run of bad luck and have a hard time making friends with the others. She would probably draw Austria or something as well.

Spock can't lie... so he would not ultimately win, unless he got very lucky. I wager he could stay in for a while though with the most prudent tactics and best judge of others' moves. He also wouled not have emotional hindrances. However he would not win because he cannot lie.

Picard would probably win. The perfect mixture of charisma, poise, tactics, and the ability to hatch plans and play tricks when necessary make a very good diplomacy player. Barring some run of bad luck, he would do the best.

Sisko is from Deep Space Nine, right?

On this note, has anyone seen the trailer for the new Star Trek movie dir. J.J. Abrams? It looks really awesome

*William Riker of the NCC-1701-D (occaisionally, Titan doesn't count here, only shows and movie ships.)

+LIKEABLE: Riker is able to blend the friendly feelings of Kirk and Archer and the aura of his captian, Picard, to have a command personality that's really superb. Chances are, if you dislike Riker, you're either an enemy of the Federation, someone inside the Federation who's got it in for Riker, or just a huge curmudgeon. Riker's the kind of guys you want to talk to when you want a freindly, fun chat but some hard advice too.
+LOYAL: When Riker makes a friend, he intends to keep that friend; countless times he's say what mattered to him most was getting Picard or Data or Troi or whoever else back safely. Of the Seven, with Archer, Riker would be the easiest to stay in an alliance with, and Riker would definitely be the most commited of any captain to an alliance, so he's least likely to stab.
-CLINGY: A bit harsh, perhaps, but true- another double-sider, as Riker's the cpatian who is most likely to stay and work hard in an alliance with you, he's also the most likely out of the Seven to put you before a win. While that sounds good at a glance, think about it. Riker has always shown a tendency to put friend first- but many times Picard or Guinan had to shoot down his idea, saying that putting that friend first would endanger the mission: and they wer right, in most cases. Riker might be the captain who'd be your fiercest ally, but possibly at teh expense of ignoring others in the alliance, or even himself, and so an alliance with Riker might not last too long, not due to a lack of commitment or a stab by Riker, but simply because by putting you first, he can overlook some very important fronts, possibly his own.

OK, all seven listed, and so far, standings show:

Spock: 2
Picard: 2
Kirk: 0
Sisko: 0
Janeway: 0
Archer: 0
Riker:0

On why Sulu wasn't listed over Riker- Riker was technically promoted in the middle of TNG to captain during the Locutus incident, so he had a longer shown run than Sulu (plus this way its 2 for TOS and 2 for TNG, not lopsided, those two are the best and most culturally important Treks, so they should each be equal.)

My scenario:

Archer is too naive and Janeway far too mechanical and not quick enough or likeable enough to make alliances- they're the first to go.

Picard, Kirk, Spock, and Riker are involved in a very interesting relationship- the first captains obviously trust their former 1st officers, but Kirk and Riker have more in common and similar styles, as do Picard and Spock.

Sisko, meanwhile, is a raging bull darkhorse- no one knows what to do with him, as he is able to manipulate and stab his way into becoming the first big power, as Picard ans Spock rise, Kirk levels out, and Riker is gradually squeezed out and is the third to go.

Kirk, Spock, and Picard are allied, but Kirk is also no fool- he knows in that alliance, he's coming out third should Sisko go. So he and Sisko make a backroom deal, and Kirk sets up to stab Spock and catch him unawares.

But like I already said, due to his logic and discipline, plus the fact he's got another great logical mind and diplomat, Picard, with him, Spock sees the stab a mile a way, and Picard and Spock turn their weight, and Sisko takes a couple bites out of Kirk now that he figures Kirk can't survive- and Kirk goes out fourth, in the middle slot.

Sisko, while taking out Kirk, launches an attack on Picard- his real plan, and he used the Kirk ruse as bait to lure Spock away. Picard's caught a bit off guard and suffers a couple losses, but he recovers, and, again, Spock's anticipated such a move, and flanks Sisko, and between Picard and Spock, Sisko goes down fifth after a bitter and bold last stand.

Picard and Spock are left near to 18 as Sisko is going under; each counterplay the other perfectly, and they both wind up at 17. Spock and Picard both see the only way to win is to stab, but because both know it would be coming and both know that it is unpredictable who would win, and both agree they've made too many gains to throw it all away on chance, especially since the two can read each other's moves so well.

Picard and Spock draw, and split the win, and the pot.

So that's my vote: .5 to Spock and .5 to Picard

So 2.5 to both Spock and Picard so far, the rest are still yet to get on the board.

data, but as he isnt there i will go with picard. (plus it was the only really watchable star trek franchise!)

Data never really acted as a captain, though, Sean, did he?

Picard: 3.5
Spock: 2.5
Rest still with 0.
Wow- no love for Kirk or anyone else?

Kirk, mainly, is too reckless and direct.

Picard. He was designed/scripted to be the Diplomat as a change from the gung ho Kirk. He would certainly be the best speaker.

Spock would have tactical and strategic brilliance but not the personal skills.

What about Data? He captained at least one vessel...

However, Picard gets my vote.

If Data's valid, I switch from Spock to Data.

Spock may not have good personal skills, but he has the advantage of that his plans would be unquestionably logical. And he could see you planning to stab him a mile away, and that counts for something.

But yes as Kirk would soon figure out Spock would be too logical. Kirk would be able to use his passion to convince the other players to join with him, despite Spock's well reasoned arguments. From their Kirk could deliberately could bamboozle Spock by making some irrational moves, thus spoiling Spock's plans.

Ah, but Kirk would, undoubtedly, soon overstretch himself, allowing Spock to tempt his "allies" into stabs.

Seeing as Riker and Picard have access to a Holodeck to figure out how the game would play out in advance, I think you'd have to vote for one of them. Riker is too much of a weenie. Its gotta be Picard.

hey obi are you a hardcore Trekkie?

Is there any question that Spock would win this? Vulcans are the diplomats of the galaxy, the highest order of all of the species socially, intellectually, and technologically. Spock would know what to offer and when, whom to talk to and when, and is there any question that there would be a meta-alliance between Kirk and Spock with Kirk being happy to usher his friend to victory? Spock's integrity would get complete respect from Picard and Riker, and probably Sisco and Janeway as well. He would have a global vision that would look good to everyone while tipping the scales in his favor.

Which country would each captain be best at? Or which best mirrors their personalities?

This really hurts to say, because I'm a total Picard fan.

Honestly, can you just picture them sitting around a table in FTF. diplomacy.

Kirk "I'm William Shatner, and I play Italy."
Spock: "No, you're Captain Kirk and . . ."
Kirk: "James T Kirk, and I'm invading France."
Spock: "Uh Sir, the object is not to . . ."
Picard: "Dammit, get the hell out of my country!"
Kirk: "Are you talking to me?"
Ricker: "Well, My army in Constantinople is moving to-- "
Kirk: "Move all you wish man, and never stop at less then the best you can do."
Spock: "I was under the impression we would all be playing seriously but--"
Kirk: "Well you thought wrong. Scotty, my fleet in Naples to London, Warp nine."
-->scotty: "I'm sorry sir, but with only the propulsion available we'll be hard pressed to make 20 knots"
Picard: "What's this man doing here! He isn't a player!"
Kirk: "He may not be playing this game, but there is always a game some--"
Archer: "Hello, sorry I'm late, my ship is a bit slower than all of yours."
MCcoy: "Dammit Jim, stop chattering and play the game!"

Leads on to Capt Kirk talking to death with dramatic acting, all the other captains eventually giving up by forfeit to shut him up.

Picard is too much of a bad ass to lose.

Spock or Kirk. They both have winning styles, they're just different.

As to the idea that Spock wouldn't lie, that's a strength and feature of his playing style, in my mind. He's shown that he does not need to tell his enemies everything and still tell the truth (see Undiscovered Country), and since everyone would know Spock doesn't lie and his logic would be outstanding, he would sucker many people into their own demise.

Kirk provides bravado, charisma, and unpredictability. This is another winning strategy/personality in my book. Less explanation is needed there.

I figure in 10 games Spock and Kirk would take 4 a piece with the final two accounting for bad luck and probably going to Picard.

And by the way, Riker was far too headstrong far too often to be effective at Diplomacy. Terribly loyal, so good fodder-ally, but not a winner.

OK, rough estimate, standings:
Picard: 5.5
Spock: 3.5
Kirk: 2
Rest with 0

My take on the game:
Picard: Welcome, gentlemen.
Kirk: Ah, yes, Picard, how, are, you, I, am, fine, than you.
Spock: Mr. Picard.
Janeway: It's been a while, Jean-luc, too long-
Sisko: Or not long enough!
Riker: And what is that supposed to mean?
Archer: Sorry I'm late, the ship broke down, ahd to grab a shuttle, what'd I miss?
Sisko: Take a seat.
Picard: Well gentlemen, the game is Diplomacy, Mr. Data shall serve as the Game Master-
Sisko: YOUR android is the GM? Isn't that a bit of a slant!
Picard: I assure you, Mr. Data-
Data: Captain Sisko, do I interpret you correctly in believeing that you feel I would feel bias in the matter? If so I must rmeind you I can not feel such emotions and-
Sisko: ALRIGHT!
Janeway: Let's all just calm down......
Kirk: Agreed, let's just, play the game. What country, Bones, do you think, I, should pick?
McCoy: Jim, I'm just a simple country doctor, not a statesman.
Picard: I'll take France, if no one objects-
Sisko: Such a powerful country, with easy nuetrals?
Picard: France is my choice, Captain Sisko, I suggest you make yours.

Sisko: Germany, then, Picard. To kepp an eye out.
Kirk: I still need a suggestion- gentlemen?
Scotty: England's got Scotlan', sir, and I cannae think of a better choice- the fleets, sir....
Chekov: Ah, Russia, Captain, vould be a good choice, Moscow, and the wessels.........
Archer: Well, I suppose I should choose, too.....
Sisko: Italy would be a great choice, Captain, lots of defense.....
Archer: Really? Alright, then, Italy. Thank you, Captain.
Sisko: My pleasure.
Janeway: Turkey.
Data: That country is rather isolated and alone-
Janeway: I know- what else is new?
Spock: England, please.
Kirk: Why, Spock?
Spock: Given point estimates, it is logically the strongest country left.
Sotty: Cap'n, we canne pull off our strategy without two starting fleets.
Kirk: Russia, if you, don't mind, Mr., Data.
Riker: What's left?
Data: Austria, sir.
Riker: Fine.
Data: The powers have been chosen. Spring 1901 begins now. There will be a session of chat for 15 minutes for order submission.

Someone want to continue from here, turn by turn, we can take turns, or shall I?

And yes- I'm a Trekkie. :)

Two best suggestion parts:
Kirk: "Well you thought wrong. Scotty, my fleet in Naples to London, Warp nine."
--
Data: "Captain Sisko, do I interpret you correctly in believeing that you feel I would feel bias in the matter? If so I must rmeind you I can not feel such emotions and-
Sisko: "ALRIGHT!"

Also, I would continue it, but I'm supposed to be doing homework now, so... yeah.

Wow, all of the posts above mine were written by complete geeks. Who cares about Star Trek?

all the people above your post would be the obvious answer to that question no?

The proper term is "Trekker." A "Trekkie" specifically means the original Kirk series and shows a lack of culture.

1. diplomat1824: If you're going to insult on a thread, why join at all, to just annoy people? Because you don't, just makes you look foolish.
2. maintgallant, I love Trek, but really- to me, as a fan, I see the two terms as tomato, tomato; plus, when you show annoyance over a term, it just makes us look immature like we can't take name calling.
3. I am so ready to go see Quantum of Solace as soon as this play's run is done; for 007, of course, big 007 fan, but also for the trailer, I thought the trailer, especially the new Spock and Scotty and Enterprise looked great online.

By the way, I've just thought- some people argued this against Spock on this thread- CAN Vulcans lie? I mean, Spock said they couldn't once, I remember, but if I recall, he and Kirk were lying and putting on a whole ruse the whole episode........

Plus he's half human, Spock........

Maybe I'm a nerd, but I'm a happy one, and one who's going to college. :)

Picard

LOL! Oh Common!
:-D
Do you think I would post the difference between Trekker and Trekkie if I wasn't one??

Sometimes I think this game fosters too much of a fighting spirit ("What is he thinking behind what he tells me?).
Give me a break!

Spock

I think Sisko needs some representation around here.

Spock.

Whenever he gets in trouble out comes the Vulcan Mind Meld. What hope do the other players have, they're human.

Picard 18 SC

Spock 14 SC

Riker 2 SC

Picard allies with riker and uses him to convoy and support moves while always being sure to protect and reassure him of the alliance. Spock does well because he can see the stabs and the openings as they come along, but doesnt have the diplomacy skills to get others to act as subordinate allies. Picard keep Riker around as a courtesy.

I'm switching to Sisko just because DS9 is the most underrated of the series. After the first season or so it was easily the most consistently good, without a bunch of psychology and time travel nonsense like TNG, monsters-of-the-week like Voyager, the occasional preachy, poorly written episode of TOS, or the craptastical Enterprise. There should have been a DS9 movie.

So go Sisko!