PRI was at least more left than it is today in the 30s. Cardenas implemented land reform and gave workers' and women more rights. He handed power over to more rightwing PRI people afterwards though, sadly.

@Jece

Cuando gustes debatimos en español :)
Mientras, aprovechando que hablas español, puedes ir checando esto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6oBVa2xS9Q (this is just so that you get an idea of how manipulative media tend to be when they get to to Venezuela)

I've heard Chavez speeches, and found nothing incoherent... populist, aggresive againts Bush and gringos that conspired against him, yes, but I find Maduro's speeches much weaker (maybe that's why Maduro lost the assembly), but Evo Morales, which I think ihas governed much better than both, has weaker speeches still.

Also there are more leftist movements than PSUV, no doubt, but more leftist parties? I'm beginning to think that you have no idea what you'r talking about.

@Putin
Cardenas was an AMAZING character, but he was not an educated person, and though he did many things that deserve praising, he didn't really change the ideological leaning of the 'revolutionary family'. And, besides some exceptions, that group was never really leftist, they were rather secularist and nationalist people.

And well, of course, less stupid (not less corrupt) than the current PRI leaders.

Putin33 thinks that Libya under Gaddafi was democratic?

Libya was a happy country until Evil US and NATO imperialists overthrew a fun loving guy.

^Don't know much about Libya, but much happier than today, they actually were...

It had a popular system of basic committees which supplanted the old power structure of tribal rulers. It had the lowest infant mortality rate and highest life expectancy of all of Africa prior to its destruction by American and European liberals, which in turn destroyed Mali and set Boko Haram on the loose throughout West Africa. Now it's a failed state and the capital of Daesh. Nice job human rights liberals.

Liberal imperialists not knowing anything about a country has never stopped them from demonizing it.

Like Iran :)

Liberal Imperialism what does that look like? Overwhelming orphan kids with Unicef?

It looks like the coup in Honduras, the NATO assault of Libya, the arming of terrorists in Syria, the support of Turkey's war on the Kurds in Iraq and SE Turkey, the drone strikes all over MENA, the support of Saudi Arabia's assault on impoverished Yemen, the support of the Nazi coup in Ukraine, the support of the Israeli assaults and annexations of Palestinians and Palestinian land, etc.

Mmk.

"And, besides some exceptions, that group was never really leftist, they were rather secularist and nationalist people. "

That's true. Although Villa wanted to confiscate large estates he seemed to do so in order to fund the war against Huerta. He had plenty of business ties with the Americans. It seemed far less of an ideological thing. Carranza was definitely a nationalist, straight from the landowning class himself and wanted to fund the war by taxing foreign companies. Zapata was perhaps the one true leftist in the whole group.

^with 'revolutionary family' I meant the politicians that were in charge around the 20's-30's-40's. None of Carranza, Villa and Zapata survived the firs post-revolution period. Carranza was definitely not leftist. Zapata was an agrarian leftist, and we could label Villa a kind of progresist leftist. But again, the Villa-Zapata project was defeated in 1915.

I would honestly love to see a country run by the citizens of webDip. Can we please try the nation simulation again?

Soon. And I do hope no one is competent enough to challenge my role as Finance Minister next time around.

We could try a slightly more developed nation...

And no one let CB anywhere near the smallpox vaccine...

I'm down for another.

Anyone up to mod it? I'm in for sure.

I think I'm still more up for a simulation with an underlying mechanism rather than a GM saying what happens.
I think abge did great but there's no guarantee that the next guy will be as good and it still didn't feel quite right to me.

I am willing to help creating such a mechanism, though. I don't have the time to do it alone for a while.

I don't have the knowledge to be of any help.

I would also like to wait a bit anyway, like after the Mafia game.

That sounds like a good time. I'd definitely join in