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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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SandgooseXXI (113 D)
03 Jul 14 UTC
May it stay forever strong
Interpret the above statement below:
8 replies
Open
mapleleaf (0 DX)
01 Jul 14 UTC
zultar, the american, is missing the point.
I actually SUPPORT my american neighbors and envy their freedom.
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zultar (4180 DMod(P))
02 Jul 14 UTC
(+1)
As I have said previously, I am for freedom of speech. There are a lot of posts that people cringe and grimace and I just kinda shrug, but that does not mean that anyone is allowed to post anything on this site. If you can find a site that lets you do that, please feel free to use their forum to post anything and everything that you wish. This site, at its very core, is a site for Diplomacy games. The forum is a plus and for many, it is a source of knowledge and experience about Diplomacy. When it becomes a reason why people leave, it's problematic, and people don't leave because they merely disagree with each other's ideas but because of the vitriol on the forum.

We have had a number of users who had quit our site because of the forum. We have had multiple users email us asking for forum moderation because though they love our site, it's extremely hard for them to see all the hate posted. We have had mods who quit because of the forum. We currently have mods who put in their time to do game modding but have more than once wanted to quit because of the forum.

Do we expect to see people step in when someone is being abused verbally or physically in public, or do we say ignore it and block it out? Not all things in the physical world translates to the online medium, but I hope our sense of decency would. We do have the mute button and I as well as Kestas and the mods have encouraged people to use it, but it is not a fix all button and it is not a substitute for building a community. When Kestas made me a co-owner of the site, one of the things that I agreed to do was to take charge of the forum and try to grow the user base, which is what I am going to try to do.

It is a fine balance between establishing a community and having freedom of speech. It is not worth it to be able to say whatever you want at the expense of no community, and it is not worth it to have a "community" that does not have much to say to each other. Neither extremes are wanted or desirable. So, my goal is for us to build a community where people are free to discuss and disagree with each other and where we are free to express ourselves which includes the use of colorful language, but not a community where people can continually abuse community members, which also includes the moderators, and spew whatever vitriol that comes to their mind. If you do not feel that such a community is worth having or that a forum without complete 100% freedom of speech is worthy of your time, you are free to not be part of it.

I completely agree with Eden's sentiment: "I think we as a community need to do a better job of treating everyone with respect, regardless of how vile their politics might seem to you. We're adults, we can do better than this and we should."
krellin (80 DX)
02 Jul 14 UTC
/\ what he said. he's actually called me out in PM, and it has impacted me. :P (Yeah, hard to tell, I know...)
+1 on both your posts on this page, PE.

Let's don't ban mapleleaf. He may be the least engageable and least serious "discussant" anywhere on these forums, but that's no cause to run him out entirely. And as someone who's relatively new to the community, I will say that I appreciate the mods' attitude of choosing "let the readers use discernment" over "let us allow only polite speech" in their approach to moderating the forums. It's rare enough in the grand scheme of things, and I hope it remains in place.
krellin (80 DX)
02 Jul 14 UTC
@PE – I’m really disappointed that the comment of mine you didn’t especially like is that everyone has a little dung beetle in them… ;P
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
02 Jul 14 UTC
Perhaps this is a discussion important enough to warrant its own thread, so that users don't have to wade through pages of bullshit to find it.
Jamiet99uk (1307 D)
02 Jul 14 UTC
I, for one, welcome Zultar's action in this case. The warning he has issued to Mapleleaf on this occasion is justified, in my opinion.

Please note, Maniac, that I am not making this statement on your behalf. Just making sure that's clear.
Hah, well, it's also a good point, krells. Just not the one that inspired a thought from me ;)

And... I kinda want to keep it here lmao. How badly have we derailed this troll thread? I think it's a great example of what we can do to self-moderate. But since some 20 or so people have mapleleaf muted, I'd hate for them to miss out... you might be right abge
zultar (4180 DMod(P))
02 Jul 14 UTC
New thread created.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
02 Jul 14 UTC
Had Zultar's warning been harsher on mapleleaf, I'd completely agree with what you just said on the other page, PE, but all he asked mapleleaf to do was tone it down. If he does that, we'll likely never have conversations like this one again. I don't think it's a very hard thing to accomplish considering, as you pointed out, he has plenty of sense about him when he's not trying to troll the shit out of the forum.

Put it in perspective - blankflag is gone because he was superbly annoying. (I emphasize "superbly" because it was really, really bad and justified in my mind - where I'm annoying, blankflag is "superbly" annoying.) He spammed, yeah, but honestly, had all those random threads about nothing been about topics of substance, he'd still be here and no one would have ever spoken out against him. Whether that's fair or not, the precedent's already been set, and the same logic applies here. Many of the things mapleleaf has said on here are "superbly" offensive, and that's grounds for sanctioning. If he shapes up, he'll be able to host tournaments again and be a good contributor, but if not, the constant "superbly offensive material" warrant zultar's warning and punishment if continued.

Abge, unless Zultar somehow broke admin guidelines and went alone and wasn't supposed to (I always assumed that, as co-kestas or whatever he's called, he was more than allowed to do that, but I don't know), I don't think there's much discussion to be had on this topic. If you want to get into adding moderation to the forum (let's face it, right now, there is absolutely no moderation beyond cheating accusations and the like), then sure, let's discuss somewhere else.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
02 Jul 14 UTC
Fuck, crosspost. Nine minute late crosspost. Meh.
krellin (80 DX)
02 Jul 14 UTC
PE - I think you have made another point that so many miss so often...and it is something some of us use as a *very* effective tool when we see something we don't like: Derailment. Do you people not understand how short the attention span of the average person is, let alone the troll? If I dont' like a threads current topic, I stride in, throw a few lines of bullshit out, and off we go in another direction. It's easy enough a babboon could do it...just as we have done here. Making it boring or stupid enough and the thread dies.

So...I would recommend that Mods and easily-offended people use this wonderful trick more often...if you don't like the bullshit, change the topic.
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
02 Jul 14 UTC
@bo, actually blankflag wasn't banned till he abused site code to get around a silence.

Zultar doesn't need permission for any forum discussions. He is for all intents and purposes Kestas. Kestas is now only involved in code changes and server maintenance.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
02 Jul 14 UTC
Fair enough, jmo, but my point was that he wasn't selling oil paintings or plastic phone covers, which is what we usually see as spam....
FineRedMist (108 D)
02 Jul 14 UTC
(+1)
PE and krellin: When I showed up, I didn't expect some kind of perfect, harmonious, polite discussion in an essentially unmoderated forum. But when the first thing I saw was ssorenn's idiotic filth -- stuff that would have prompted nearly any person not separated from him by hundreds of miles and two computer monitors to punch his fucking lights out -- I made a pretty civil observation calling it out. I now realize that because he was attacking the most unpopular person on the site his attack was looked at more favorably. But look at the response to what I said. It wasn't, "Hey, noob, if you knew this guy you wouldn't mind," or whatever. It was the immediate opening of several cans of whoop-ass on me for daring to say anything by the Mean Girls. So, PE, I submit to you that "calling each other out on it" is unrealistic when the inmates essentially run the asylum and will shout down anyone who threatens to impose even the slightest restrictions on their little Lord of the Flies party.

And krellin, I'll admit I was wrong about you. I honestly thought you were smart enough to see my "poll" thread for what it is, a clearly satirical, political statement about the ridiculousness of this forum. The mod's lame attempt to jump in, complete with citations of vague and unenforced forum rules, was a nice addition.

The only way a forum like this can be made tolerable and civil by the better angels of the community and all that is if users can thumb down stuff until people get silenced. Then you'll get whatever the community wants. Until then, only benevolent dictatorship will help...or just throw up your hands and pander to the lowest common denominator.
mapleleaf (0 DX)
03 Jul 14 UTC
Bump.....because everyone needs to read FineRedMist's ^post.
"It was the immediate opening of several cans of whoop-ass on me for daring to say anything by the Mean Girls."

Can you clarify what you mean here? From my standpoint, when I read your thread it didn't look like the constructive criticism you're saying it was -- it read more like unhelpful heaping onto the fire. Sorry for misreading what you were going for; in my defense, I don't believe it was as clear as you think it was.

More generally you're correct that certain people tend to get a pass for their past rep and others don't. I know I'm guilty of as much with some of the characters on here; I tend just to roll my eyes when something dumb or hurtful is said from someone who makes a habit of it and move on. But that's not how you lead, and not how you get a civil community, hence the effort here to make a change.
semck83 (229 D(B))
03 Jul 14 UTC
Thumbing down just leads to self-enforcing orthodoxy defined by the all-too silent majority, not to good forums.
Yeah, I agree with you there semck. I can understand the intuitive appeal of a system like that but having seen the results on reddit, I'm pretty pessimistic about that being the answer.
I think a "Report this Post" reflects the demand better than a -1. Trying to avoid reddit, I can't speak to the experience there, but a simple -1 is not the point of this feature to my mind.
FineRedMist (108 D)
03 Jul 14 UTC
PE, I was referring to what happened on p. 2 of "Proportionate response?" Consider: that was a new user's introduction to what passes for forum rules. My thread was then meant to illustrate essentially what that leads to.
ssorenn (0 DX)
03 Jul 14 UTC
Yo, FineRedAss, are you going to play a game or just keep spouting off, i think krellin and a whole bunch else would like to see what you bring to the table
President Eden (2750 D)
03 Jul 14 UTC
(+3)
ssorenn please stop being a douche ty
ssorenn (0 DX)
03 Jul 14 UTC
Oh PE. Your really buying in to this guy, who flung as much poo as he could when he found out it did not bother anyone. Hmmm, thought you smarter than that.
President Eden (2750 D)
03 Jul 14 UTC
(+1)
Not especially "buying into" anything, the request is independent of who you're harassing. Please?
ssorenn (0 DX)
03 Jul 14 UTC
if will allow you to enjoy your holiday
very much :)

happy 4th!
Maniac (189 D(B))
03 Jul 14 UTC
@ PE - "This is a privately-owned site. It's not a Constitutional restriction on someone's freedom of speech to tell them not to say something when they're on your property. And think about the implications of what you're saying -- why would someone not have a right to tell another person, using their property, not to say vile, hateful things while on it? If I went to your house and started insulting you and your family, Maniac, surely you would throw me out, wouldn't you?"

Yes, you are absolutely right, I would ask you to leave. In the interest of full disclosure everyone who comes to my house knows that I do not tolerate insulting language, my children 22, 18 and 14 have only ever heard me swear twice. I don't enforce these rules by banning people from my house, they know my feelings on issues like race, homophobia and swearing and they all respect my views.

I just think there are better ways of getting what you want. Banning people etc is just going to make people push boundaries. State what you expect clearly and ask people to conform, no threats, no sticks, no punishments.
krellin (80 DX)
03 Jul 14 UTC
maniac - bullshit! If you knew someone was a loud-mouthed, swearing homosexual athiest rabbit-fucker who liked to wear a sports bra and a tutu, I guarantee you would ban them from your home.
krellin (80 DX)
03 Jul 14 UTC
Like Putin...
krellin (80 DX)
03 Jul 14 UTC
Oh...wiat...that's what you sadi you would do. heh heh.

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105 replies
denis (864 D)
03 Jul 14 UTC
Two units bounce
SO two units Bounce each other in a territory, say Munich and Burgundy bounce in Rurh during Autumn of 1904, can another unit, say Belgium or Kiel then retreat into that Territory during the Retreats Phase of Autumn 1904.
5 replies
Open
mapleleaf (0 DX)
03 Jul 14 UTC
(+1)
For forum users, please read this here thread.
It's way better than the other one. lol.
34 replies
Open
Maniac (189 D(B))
03 Jul 14 UTC
Well I for one am glad they're dead.
Peter Allen and Gwynne Owen - hope you don't rest in peace.

In my opinion hanging was too good for them, maybe the electric chair would have been more fitting.
7 replies
Open
zultar (4180 DMod(P))
02 Jul 14 UTC
(+12)
WebDiplomacy Community & Freedom of Speech
Please read.
231 replies
Open
CommanderByron (801 D(S))
02 Jul 14 UTC
(+1)
College
So I am a high school graduate, and a college student come august. While I am aware of the benefits to college; I am curious as to how college or lack there of has affected anyone else. Looking for more perspective.
74 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
03 Jul 14 UTC
(+3)
You Guys....
I love you guys. All of you. No. Really! I do!! <smooches>

Here's to a brighter, kinder me...
19 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
02 Jul 14 UTC
The Quantum Shift
...<chew on this>...
19 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
03 Jul 14 UTC
Help for the Overly Sensitive
I a further effort to help those insensitive...er...I mean overly sensitive virgin eyes that enjoy this blessed place, please avail yourself of this wonderful protective gear:
http://www.woot.com/offers/protect-yourself-1?ref=cnt_wp_9_3
5 replies
Open
SantaClausowitz (360 D)
02 Jul 14 UTC
Changing your mind
Is it a sign of weakness or strength.
25 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
02 Jul 14 UTC
Need A Replacement For France
I'm looking for an active, respected player to partner with the remaining French player in our Dummy trial game (gameID=143236). If you aren't familiar with this game, each country has 2 players that equally share control (press, moves, etc). Let me know if you're interested.
6 replies
Open
SYnapse (0 DX)
30 Jun 14 UTC
Ramadan
Anyone else doing this? I was challenged by my Muslim friends at work, damn I'm hungry.
98 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
02 Jul 14 UTC
(+1)
Whiny-A** B*tches!!
http://online.wsj.com/articles/new-york-court-strikes-down-cyberbullying-law-1404239912?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTTopStories

That's right, you are all a bunch of whiny ass bitches and there's not a damned thing you can do about it. Suck on that :P
12 replies
Open
Sevyas (973 D)
13 Mar 14 UTC
(+1)
2014 - 7 games wta series
As the initial thread is closed but the tournament is still running, here a new thread for general tournament announcements, pause requests, ranking, ...
Let's keep this one alive

Old thread: http://www.webdiplomacy.net/forum.php?viewthread=1092719#1092719
124 replies
Open
FineRedMist (108 D)
30 Jun 14 UTC
(+1)
Who's the least intelligent puppy-kicking child-fucker on this forum?
A) Draugnar
B) krellin
C) ssorenn
D) FineRedMist
65 replies
Open
ILN (100 D)
02 Jul 14 UTC
Nice game if you're interested
Don't know if this is spam or not, not selling paintings or anything - just a recommendation.

Link and description below:
1 reply
Open
semck83 (229 D(B))
30 Jun 14 UTC
Hobby Lobby
The US Supreme Court has just (ten minutes ago) upheld Hobby Lobby's right, under religious conscience, not to provide contraception coverage to its employees.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/13pdf/13-354_olp1.pdf
152 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (1307 D)
26 Jun 14 UTC
(+2)
Proportionate response?
Earlier this month, three Israeli teenagers went missing in the occupied West Bank. Israeli authorities allege that Hamas abducted them. Hamas has stated that this is untrue and that they are not responsible.
217 replies
Open
semck83 (229 D(B))
29 Jun 14 UTC
Cuba
Has anybody been? Is it this bad?

http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/sunday-commentary/20140627-the-last-communist-city.ece
63 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
01 Jul 14 UTC
(+1)
True Friends Stab You In The Front EOG
gameID=142294

Thanks for the game, everyone. Not particularly well played by myself; I made at least 2 serious blunders and probably should have been eliminated, but it was still great fun.
15 replies
Open
tvrocks (388 D)
01 Jul 14 UTC
sitter needed
i'm going on a 4 day camping trip (against my will by the way) next week starting monday. Please post if you can.
12 replies
Open
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
23 Jun 14 UTC
7 player, 7 games series (gunboat)
Just looking for 6 other players. The goal will be to have 7 games with the same 7 players. Been done many times, I know. I'll be scrutinizing the people, so only decent players (no noobs, sorry).
62 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
29 Apr 14 UTC
(+3)
Mafia General Discussion Thread
Single-thread resource for discussion of mafia games on webDiplomacy. Please remember not to comment in here about specific ongoing games!
424 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
01 Jul 14 UTC
(+5)
Can we stop with the hate circlejerk threads?
This is as a member of the community not a mod, but there's been two threads today calling out specific members and inviting flaming. It's really old and just degrades the forum discourse. Please stop? Thanks <3
30 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (1307 D)
23 Jun 14 UTC
Anti-jokes
Let's have your best anti-jokes. Here are a few:

Q: Why didn't Jesus play hockey?
A: Because baseball and soccer are much more popular sports in Mexico.
54 replies
Open
italiathad88 (0 DX)
01 Jul 14 UTC
live game
Join my live game (5 min) "Derbyshire"Starts in forty minutes.
Or email me when you plan on playing live.
[email protected]
I will play live games to your specification as well.
2 replies
Open
KingCyrus (511 D)
01 Jul 14 UTC
(+2)
Did anyone miss Putin33?
After a couple of days, and seeing him participate in a few heated arguments, I ask the population of webDip. Did you miss Putin33? I know I did. Whether for laughing at him and his ideology, glad of a champion of your ideology, someone to defend Russia, or someone else to call krellin names, who had SOME reason to be glad he is back?
27 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
01 Jul 14 UTC
Hate on Soccer
http://townhall.com/columnists/anncoulter/2014/06/25/americas-favorite-national-pastime-hating-soccer-n1855817

Who loves Coulter! Gotta love this.
7 replies
Open
denis (864 D)
01 Jul 14 UTC
Replacement for Germany LIVE GAME
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=144052 Germany left
1 reply
Open
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